Hello and my idea for a new rig

[churchy]

Hello all..

First I would like to say hello!! Been reading the forum for a long time but this is my first post... (go easy eh?)

Just wanted to run something past the experts....

I have been researching and testing out as much gear as I can, and am settled on the following...

Markbass Tube 800 (800 watts @ 4 ohms)
Markbass Standard 104HF (800 watts @ 8ohms)
Markbass Traveler 115P (400 watts @ 8ohms)

I only play mainstream cover stuff, and would not call myself a connoisseur of sound, but I do the best I can. I was after something that gave me versatility, light weight and was a good all rounder. To be honest I could have picked from several different amps, but Markbass just seem to stand out slightly from the rest (probably the yellow).

Anyway my plan...

For most gigs I will use the 104 on its own. The amp will kick out 500 Watts at 8ohms, leaving the 104 with plenty of headroom. This will be more than enough for most venues.

I plan to use the 115 for weekly practice sessions and also at home. Appreciate I would need to be carful not to push the amp to high, as the 115 is only rated at 400W, but it would give me a nice compact little set-up that I can keep in the house and I can get in my car without having to put the seats down (ford fiesta 3 door = tiny boot).

Finally if I wanted to melt faces I can pair both cabs together and take advantage of the amps full potential.

I understand a combined 115 and 104 (410) are not everyone's ideal set up, however I am trying to look at it from several aspects. Plus combined (I plan to put the 115 on top) I thought the 115 might add something different to the sound rather than another 210.


There is one specific thing I just wanted to check on...

Am I right to say If I pair up the 104 and 115 (giving me 4ohm), the two cabs together will get 400 Watts each from the amp, so I should not exceed the capability of the 115 which is rated at 400 watts? I doubt if I would ever need to push that hard, but I dont want anything to catch fire unexpectedly.

Other than that, if there are any major flaws in my master plan I would really appreciate any advice or help you can give me....

Thanks again !!!!

CC.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by churchy

Am I right to say If I pair up the 104 and 115 (giving me 4ohm), the two cabs together will get 400 Watts each from the amp, so I should not exceed the capability of the 115 which is rated at 400 watts? .

One of the reasons why the 410/115 setup is intrinsically flawed is that watts have little to no relationship with output capability. That is determined by the combination of sensitivity and displacement, and where both sensitivity and displacement are concerned 410s outrun 115s.
A balanced option would be a 410/210, giving three cab possibilities based on output needs. The 410 should have half the impedance of the 210, which means a 4 ohm 410 and 8 ohm 210. That means the amp must have 2 ohm capability. Otherwise a pair of 8 ohm 410 will give a far better result than a 410/115.

[churchy]

Thanks for the detailed reply..

I can see what you are saying, that 2 x 410s would be the ideal match based on impeadance, sensitivity and displacement as they are exactly the same. And also that a 410 has far different characteristics than a 115 so sonically they will never be a perfect match.

But accepting that sonically they are not the perfect match, should I still be concerned about physically damaging the 115 if I run it paired with the 410?

From what I understand two 8ohm cabs should split the power from the amp equally (or there abouts) meaning the 115 should not exceed its 400W rating (half the 800W from the amp).

I pretty much accept that the pairing is not perfect, but the majority of the time I will either use the 410 for gigging and the 115 for practice. I guess I just want to be sure if I do put the two cabs together the 115 is not at risk of damage?

Thanks!

[rhopper]

You should have no problem running these two cabs together. Although these might not be the perfect match, it seems to be the most popular combination of stacked cabs right now.

[aledeville]

You practise with the sound of the 15 inch cab, then at the gig you have a completely different animal. This is not very clever.

When you use them both with 8Ohm, the 410 is much louder because of the higher sensitivity and more speaker surface (410 is more or less twice the surface of the 115).

[MIJ-VI]

Get two 1x15 cabs?

[churchy]

Cheers fellas..

As long as I cannot break anything then I am happy.

Originally Posted by aledeville

You practise with the sound of the 15 inch cab, then at the gig you have a completely different animal. This is not very clever.

The places we practice often don't allow to play full volume and when learning new songs the 'gig' sound is far from important to start with. Sure if we are practicing the set and trying to get a mix I will use the full rig. When I play drums with my other band and rarely take a 7 piece kit to practice. I guess I ain't precious about having my sound and a bit lazy (which is more than can be said for the guitarist who turns up with 3 cabs and 8 guitars every time) Clever depends on your point of view I guess.

[RickenBoogie]

For your intended purpose, the rig will be fine. Just be aware, the wattage ratings on the cabs are thermal limits, meaning, at that power level, the voice coils will burn up. The cab will actually take much LESS wattage than it's rated for, so watch your volume and low end eq with the 15.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by churchy

Thanks for the detailed reply..

I can see what you are saying, that 2 x 410s would be the ideal match based on impeadance, sensitivity and displacement as they are exactly the same. And also that a 410 has far different characteristics than a 115 so sonically they will never be a perfect match.

But accepting that sonically they are not the perfect match, should I still be concerned about physically damaging the 115 if I run it paired with the 410?

From what I understand two 8ohm cabs should split the power from the amp equally (or there abouts) meaning the 115 should not exceed its 400W rating (half the 800W from the amp).

I pretty much accept that the pairing is not perfect, but the majority of the time I will either use the 410 for gigging and the 115 for practice. I guess I just want to be sure if I do put the two cabs together the 115 is not at risk of damage?

Thanks!

Read my lips: Watts don't mean diddly!
Where output is concerned displacement and sensitivity is what matters. A 115 will run out of displacement before the 410 will, and since it has lower sensitivity it won't run as loud as the 410 either. It's not a matter of whether the 115 will be damaged. It's a matter of whether you should bother bringing a knife to a gunfight. It might have once worked for James Coburn (that one will require some thought), but for the rest of us, not really.

BTW, if it was me I'd be doing a pair of 115s or a pair of 210s.

[churchy]

OK Ok- reading your lips!!!

Seriously, really appreciate the advice and sorry if they are daft questions.

Thats the whole reason i thought I had better ask (me being daft that is)


CC

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by churchy

OK Ok- reading your lips!!!

Seriously, really appreciate the advice and sorry if they are daft questions.

Not at all, since manufacturers don't provide either measured sensitivity charts or displacement limited power ratings the consumer is at a distinct disadvantage. The best example of providing truly useful product information I'm aware of is found at http://www.barefacedbass.com/
and even there SPL charts are not to be found AFAIK.

[62bass]

Originally Posted by churchy

OK Ok- reading your lips!!!

Seriously, really appreciate the advice and sorry if they are daft questions.

Thats the whole reason i thought I had better ask (me being daft that is)


CC

From personal experience I'd go with a pair of 1x15s. Best sound I ever had and my Yorkville cabinets weren't nearly as high quality as the Markbass. You should sound great with a pair of the Markbass 15s.
You'll have plenty of volume and nothing will be straining and working too hard.

I never was happy with other pairings I tried over many years of playing. They may have worked impedance wise and nothing blew up, but they didn't sound as good.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by rhopper

You should have no problem running these two cabs together. Although these might not be the perfect match, it seems to be the most popular combination of stacked cabs right now.

that's called "engineering by looks." a lot of musicians listen with their eyes and assume because the 115 is large and 10"s are small that the 410 won't have as much low end when they often have as much or more low end. and cab companies are more than happy to play into that to boost sales.

[Fretlessboy]

I agree totaly. Would a 40 inch speaker have more lowend than a 15 inch speaker? They don't make a 40 inch speaker...or do they?




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Originally Posted by JimmyM

that's called "engineering by looks." a lot of musicians listen with their eyes and assume because the 115 is large and 10"s are small that the 410 won't have as much low end when they often have as much or more low end. and cab companies are more than happy to play into that to boost sales.