Help with 2x15 cabinet.

prometheus · #1 02-12-2013, 01:35 AM

I have recently purchased a Bassman silverface with the AB165 circuitry (well, according to the sticker). With it came an fender 2x15 cabinet. The seller thought the speakers inside had been replaced with peaveys. Inspection of inside suggests to me replacement, however ther are no sticker labels identifying the speakers. One seems older than the other. They only have some printed numbers on the back of the speakers. These are what looks to be SPL-1 with a second number of 67-8110 and SP-1 with a second number of 67-8130. they are all black. They seem voiced for bass. Any help with identification would be appreciated.

prometheus · #2 02-12-2013, 01:39 AM

Here are a couple of more pics of the rig.

prometheus · #3 02-12-2013, 01:45 AM

Also thinking of changing the speakers to a 2x12 setup. Any thoughts on how 12's will do in a cab originally designed for 15's. I am handy enough with saws and basic carpentry, so I would not think changing out the baffle would be overly difficult.

rubbadubdub · #4 02-12-2013, 03:24 AM

I would avoid any cab with 'upgraded' or swapped speakers. A bass cab design and dimensions are specific to the original drivers only. It doesnt matter with guitar speakers as they don't need a tuned low frequency response. I have used cabs with non original drivers and they worked reasonably well but those jbl speakers I had were wasted in the wrong cabs and the original Peavey drivers would have most likely sounded much better as they were designed to work with the cabs despite those particular drivers being technically lower grade than the JBL's. I once read somewhere that the design of the box was more critical than that of the driver. Bass cab design is very complex and good results are unlikely through trial and error. Mind you, that never stopped those barmy rastafarians at the Notting Hill Carnival. Wardrobe full of 18's anyone? :-)

sanderic · #5 02-12-2013, 03:28 AM

Those look like old CTS speakers to me. They were the same speakers that came stock in Kustom, Peavey, and just about every other amp of that era.

Arjank · #6 02-12-2013, 03:41 AM

Since it's a closed cabinet you can swap them with some quality 12's as long as they don't have a very low Qes(Qts) and to high Fs.

Ported designs are way more critical tuning wise.

You could consider one of these 12's:
http://www.eminence.com/speakers/spe...Basslite_S2012

http://www.eminence.com/speakers/spe...odel=Alpha_12A This driver is a bit excursion limited.

Or, one of these 15's:
http://www.eminence.com/speakers/spe...Basslite_C2515

http://www.eminence.com/speakers/spe...l=Legend_CA154

http://www.eminence.com/speakers/spe...model=Beta_15A

http://www.eminence.com/speakers/spe...el=Delta_15LFA

http://www.eminence.com/speakers/spe...odel=Alpha_15A This driver is a bit excursion limited and the Qes is a bit to high for my taste (only choose these if you can get them really cheap)

DudeLeap · #7 02-12-2013, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubbadubdub

I would avoid any cab with 'upgraded' or swapped speakers. A bass cab design and dimensions are specific to the original drivers only. It doesnt matter with guitar speakers as they don't need a tuned low frequency response. I have used cabs with non original drivers and they worked reasonably well but those jbl speakers I had were wasted in the wrong cabs and the original Peavey drivers would have most likely sounded much better as they were designed to work with the cabs despite those particular drivers being technically lower grade than the JBL's. I once read somewhere that the design of the box was more critical than that of the driver. Bass cab design is very complex and good results are unlikely through trial and error. Mind you, that never stopped those barmy rastafarians at the Notting Hill Carnival. Wardrobe full of 18's anyone? :-)

I learned this the hard way. I have a 70's Kustom 2x15 (blacktolex not tucknroll) that I replaced the speakers with Eminence Legend CB15's because the speakers were original and shot. I now HATE the sound of this cab. Before the speakers went it sounded great now it sounds like garbage. On the hunt for an another Ampeg...

Arjank · #8 02-12-2013, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeLeap

I learned this the hard way. I have a 70's Kustom 2x15 (blacktolex not tucknroll) that I replaced the speakers with Eminence Legend CB15's because the speakers were original and shot. I now HATE the sound of this cab. Before the speakers went it sounded great now it sounds like garbage. On the hunt for an another Ampeg...

Was that 70's custom a closed or ported box?
The CB15 does not run optimal in a closed box or smaller ported one, it needs a big ported enclosure .
But I think the change in sound doesn't have much to do with the "tuning" of the box/loudspeaker but more with the "character"(frequency-response) of the CB15 that you do not like. Btw. didn't the custom cabs have JBL like drivers in them, the ones with the metal dustcap? They probably had a more extended top-end.

Oren Hudson · #9 02-12-2013, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prometheus

I have recently purchased a Bassman silverface with the AB165 circuitry (well, according to the sticker). With it came an fender 2x15 cabinet. The seller thought the speakers inside had been replaced with peaveys. Inspection of inside suggests to me replacement, however ther are no sticker labels identifying the speakers. One seems older than the other. They only have some printed numbers on the back of the speakers. These are what looks to be SPL-1 with a second number of 67-8110 and SP-1 with a second number of 67-8130. they are all black. They seem voiced for bass. Any help with identification would be appreciated.

Speaker code breaks down like this - those are Eminence (67) speakers made 1981 (81) during the 10th week (10) and 30th week (30). At that time, Fender was using Jensen, Rola and JBLs to the best of my knowledge. I have a '68 head and cab. When I got it, it had Rolas in it, but was a D140F badged cab. It now has the correct JBL D140Fs in it and sounds real nice.

DudeLeap · #10 02-12-2013, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arjank

Was that 70's custom a closed or ported box?
The CB15 does not run optimal in a closed box or smaller ported one, it needs a big ported enclosure .
But I think the change in sound doesn't have much to do with the "tuning" of the box/loudspeaker but more with the "character"(frequency-response) of the CB15 that you do not like. Btw. didn't the custom cabs have JBL like drivers in them, the ones with the metal dustcap? They probably had a more extended top-end.

It's got one big port across the bottom. I feel like I can't get decent highs out of it and it super bassy no matter what. What do you mean by tuning the box? Not trying to thread jac.

will33 · #11 02-12-2013, 10:55 AM

Those are old squareback eminences Peavey used in some stuff they didn't put Black Widows in, some 215's, old TNT100's, etc. They are roughly 100 watt speakers but will fart out in the bass with maybe 40 watts or so, estimations there. I've had some and emailed Peavey about them but they didn't have a lot of detailed info. Eminence might if you email them all the numbers off the back.

I always thought they had a pretty nice tone, just couldn't take much power/volume. I ended up replacing them with sturdier drivers in a couple of 115's I had, but with only 50 or 100 watts worth of Bassman, they may work OK as is. How do they sound to you?

Nice looking rig BTW....love old fenders. I'd really like to use my bassman135 more often, I just can't get it loud enough for me without a whole mountain of speakers under it.

BassmanPaul · #12 02-12-2013, 11:17 AM

There is no need to replace the baffle to use twelve inch drivers. Just make an adapter plate from half inch plywood.

barryaudio · #13 02-12-2013, 11:21 AM

Do you like the sound of the speakers?

Just a little bit of work and you can make that cab sound even better:
- If the panels seem "wobbly" or if they flex, add some bracing
- Line the cab with some cheap R13 fiberglass (non-faced) to remove resonances
- check the seams of the cab for proper seals. If there are any air leaks, you can run a bead of adhesive (PL Premium) or even some silicone caulk

prometheus · #14 02-12-2013, 03:34 PM

Actually, what little I have played through them, I like ok. The amp needs a good work over from a tech, but is currently playable. I just could not get good info from the seller on the current speakers. One of those "bought it twenty years ago, haven't played it for ten" things. I am going to ohm test the speakers this evening to make sure what I am getting there. I put a meter to it once already, but I am not confident in its accuracy. I am just starting to learn a little about ohms and watts and how all that works together to get the most efficiency out of the amp. I just threw the 12" question out there to start figuring out all of my options. I have always played threw combos and this my first seperate cabinet rig (with the exception of my solid state ampeg flip top). I appreciat all the info so far. The peavey made by eminence comments seem to line up with what little information I had already come across. I had previously tried my bass through a bandmate's blonde bassman blackface and knew I liked the bassman sound for my purposes. That is what caused me to go ahead with this purchase. The price was so good it was like getting the cabinet for free and some. I play mostly early rockabilly/pop, country and surf. I have been keeping up with a 60watt solid state for some time so I feel the 50 watt tube power should suffice. Also , I have good PA support if needed. If everything checks out with the current speakers, I will probably go with the suggestion of replacing the missing bracing and upgrading the old wore out insulation.(old faced house batting by the way) Thanks again for all of the information.

will33 · #15 02-12-2013, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeLeap

It's got one big port across the bottom. I feel like I can't get decent highs out of it and it super bassy no matter what. What do you mean by tuning the box? Not trying to thread jac.

Something is wrong. Though on the warmer side of the tone spectrum, Legends aren't "all bass and nothing else". Though a larger box may be "optimal", they are fairly friendly toward smallish enclosures when it comes to sounding good with the electric bass guitar.

Are they both hooked up and working? Is one disconnected or blown, flopping around as a passive radiatoe? It could also be the box tuning is so high you've got a 100hz "one-note-wonder" response bump going on tthere. Do they sound like that regardless of room poaitioning/distance from walls, etc?

will33 · #16 02-12-2013, 04:28 PM

Sorry for all the typos. This phone and I are really not getting along well.

DudeLeap · #17 02-12-2013, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

Something is wrong. Though on the warmer side of the tone spectrum, Legends aren't "all bass and nothing else". Though a larger box may be "optimal", they are fairly friendly toward smallish enclosures when it comes to sounding good with the electric bass guitar.

Are they both hooked up and working? Is one disconnected or blown, flopping around as a passive radiatoe? It could also be the box tuning is so high you've got a 100hz "one-note-wonder" response bump going on tthere. Do they sound like that regardless of room poaitioning/distance from walls, etc?

I pulled it out today for the first time in months and both speakers are definitely working. I think its more a matter of me loving the sound of the original speakers that were in it and then switching to the legend and wanting the same sound and just being really disappointed. The legends are definitely warmer with more low end and it's not what I really wanted, I liked the punch and brightness my old speakers had. (I'm bad with descriptions hahah) Someone recommended trying these speakers in a TL606. I don't know if I should bother with building a cab or finding other speakers/cabinet.

dhsierra1 · #18 02-12-2013, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

Sorry for all the typos. This phone and I are really not getting along well.

I dunno, I really like "passive radiatoe", could be a whole new mashup of speaker technology and cooking

AltGrendel · #19 02-12-2013, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhsierra1

I dunno, I really like "passive radiatoe", could be a whole new mashup of speaker technology and cooking

Or a good name for a band.

will33 · #20 02-12-2013, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhsierra1

I dunno, I really like "passive radiatoe", could be a whole new mashup of speaker technology and cooking

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeLeap

I pulled it out today for the first time in months and both speakers are definitely working. I think its more a matter of me loving the sound of the original speakers that were in it and then switching to the legend and wanting the same sound and just being really disappointed. The legends are definitely warmer with more low end and it's not what I really wanted, I liked the punch and brightness my old speakers had. (I'm bad with descriptions hahah) Someone recommended trying these speakers in a TL606. I don't know if I should bother with building a cab or finding other speakers/cabinet.

Ya might like EV 15L's in your box better than you'd like the Legends in the EV box. Much, much brighter.