Help me get over my fear of 1x12

[socialleper]

I'm looking at putting together a mini rig of doom for taking to gigs, but I have a mental block when it comes to 1x12 speaker cabs. When I played the most from 1990 to 2002 12" speakers were for guitars and combo amps, "real" bass players used 10" and 15". When I started to get back into playing I saw all these 112 and 212 cabs and just can't seem to wrap my head around.
In my personal time warp I can't seem to stop thinking that a stack of 12" speaker cabs would sound really clanky or have too much bark. But they are so small and so convenient for getting around. Can they possibly have the same low end heft of a 15" speaker?
Convince me that I can get a big fat tone out of a pair of 112s.

[Not yet]

Whole different world today

Million threads here on it, personally had Acoustic 360s, SVTs, roadies and trucks of equipment in the day, two Neox 112Ts today sounds way fuller and articulate.

Maybe the wind blowing from the back of the stage is nowhere as forceful, but sure easier to move

[MNAirHead]

Too many variables to help you.

I fill a 4,000 foot church with 1-10 and 130 watts turned to 11 o clock....

[DWBass]

I had a fear of them as well. It takes getting used to as well. I much prefer 10's myself but sometimes, you gotta have that portability a 1x12 can bring.

[spector_boogie]

I love 12's. So much so, that I have 4 of them in my rig...

[fdeck]

During your hiatus from playing, bass speaker design began to turn a corner because a number of people began to question the reasoning behind rules such as "tens are fast and fifteens are deep and twelves are for practice amps." Folks began to dig into how speakers actually work, and began sharing this information with one another. Speaker makers saw a chance to break the marketing rules for driver configurations. Accordingly, the makers of drivers have paid more attention to their 12" offerings.

Meanwhile, there has been a "movement" among a number of designers, builders, and players, to explore an analytical approach to speaker design resulting in being able to produce practically any desired response curve with any diameter of driver.

[will33]

For the very reasons fdeck mentioned, my little 212 rig does what I used to need a 215 to do, at almost 1/2 the size and easily 1/2 the weight.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by will33

For the very reasons fdeck mentioned, my little 212 rig does what I used to need a 215 to do, at almost 1/2 the size and easily 1/2 the weight.

+1 I moved from 410's to 212's and from 210's to 112's. That would have not been possible 10 years ago.

Volume is equivalent, but with the new generation of 12" drivers, the low end is more full , the vertical or single driver orientation provides a smidge better upper mid response off axis, and the boxes are smaller. Win, win, win.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by fdeck

During your hiatus from playing, bass speaker design began to turn a corner because a number of people began to question the reasoning behind rules such as "tens are fast and fifteens are deep and twelves are for practice amps." Folks began to dig into how speakers actually work, and began sharing this information with one another. Speaker makers saw a chance to break the marketing rules for driver configurations. Accordingly, the makers of drivers have paid more attention to their 12" offerings.

Meanwhile, there has been a "movement" among a number of designers, builders, and players, to explore an analytical approach to speaker design resulting in being able to produce practically any desired response curve with any diameter of driver.

+1 PS (since you are on this thread), TOTALLY digging your Series III Hi Pass filter. VERY nice, and another step forward (i.e., bassists having a hi pass filter that can fit in a gig bag). Nice! Thanks!

[will33]

Originally Posted by KJung

+1 I moved from 410's to 212's and from 210's to 112's. That would have not been possible 10 years ago.

Volume is equivalent, but with the new generation of 12" drivers, the low end is more full , the vertical or single driver orientation provides a smidge better upper mid response off axis, and the boxes are smaller. Win, win, win.

+1

Plenty of fat sound, nothing lacking there.


Should also mention don't generalize tone based on speaker size, doesn't have much to do with it. Most any size speaker can be made to sound fat or thin, deep or bright, etc.

Compare an Ampeg 410HLF to anything with an EV15L in it, like some Mesa cabs for example.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by will33

+1

Plenty of fat sound, nothing lacking there.


Should also mention don't generalize tone based on speaker size, doesn't have much to do with it. Most any size speaker can be made to sound fat or thin, deep or bright, etc.

Compare an Ampeg 410HLF to anything with an EV15L in it, like some Mesa cabs for example.

+1 As you know, I am one who doesn't care about speaker size at all. The 'brightest, tightest' cab I've ever owned was a 15" Celestion loaded Schroeder, and the deepest and widest was a 10" loaded Acme.

I probably should have been clearer and stated that 'many small cabs with two drivers now outperform many traditional designed larger cabs with double the drivers, etc. '

[socialleper]

The part about the volume of 2x12s being higher than an average 1x15 I get. I also really like the idea of having two smaller cabs that will fit into my Mazda 3 better than a 1x15. I had to sell my 4x10 when I realized it wouldn't fit in my car any more.

The part that scares me the most is the loss of lows. Having two 12" speakers with ports makes sense, I'm just unsure if I can get the depth I want out of the B on my 5 string Warwick $$ from a 2x12 stack. I'm looking for a Geezer Butler, Bob Daisley, Bryan Richie (The Sword) kind of tone, not anything super brite or too extreme in the high mids. Any recommendations for some 112s that will stack to do this?

[socialleper]

Originally Posted by fdeck

"tens are fast and fifteens are deep and twelves are for practice amps."

Duho! That's totally my mindset. I also remember when everyone said a 410 + a 115 was the best way to go, now everyone hates that idea. I still love the way a 810 sounds, but that is completely out of the question.
I also come from the school of "heavier means better". The GK 410 Neo I had did a pretty good job of making me rethink that. It has really solid lows and wasn't impossible to lift.

[PlungerModerno]

Try a 212 or a 112.

Best to make it a pretty high end one, a good, flexible amp, and a few fav riffs.

Try putting a 112 tilting back to face you, or put it on a chair or a crate to get it closer to head height. Give one or two a chance!

[KJung]

Originally Posted by socialleper

The part about the volume of 2x12s being higher than an average 1x15 I get. I also really like the idea of having two smaller cabs that will fit into my Mazda 3 better than a 1x15. I had to sell my 4x10 when I realized it wouldn't fit in my car any more.

The part that scares me the most is the loss of lows. Having two 12" speakers with ports makes sense, I'm just unsure if I can get the depth I want out of the B on my 5 string Warwick $$ from a 2x12 stack. I'm looking for a Geezer Butler, Bob Daisley, Bryan Richie (The Sword) kind of tone, not anything super brite or too extreme in the high mids. Any recommendations for some 112s that will stack to do this?

Aguilar DB112's are pretty killing. Nice round, full low end, but lots of 'mid mids' that sealed 10 cab guys tend to love. Nice organic grind coming out of the top of the driver when pushed. Great 112's for a kind of 'modern meets old school tone. One with a tweeter (that you can dial down if you want) and a second in woofer only configuration makes a great stack.

Also, the Baer ML112's are FANTASTIC for that tone also. Nice, power 12" woofer (top of the line neo) and a great sounding mid driver (versus the woofer/tweeter design), and unlike some other mid driver loaded boxes, the Faital mid driver that is used in the Baer ML112 has a lot of that 'upper response of a driver' tone that sounds great with some grind put into it. Exceptional box. It is a touch bright up top, but not in a 'tweeter' sort of way, and it is pretty easy to dial out if you amp has an upper midrange control.

For a somewhat 'vintage' tone, for lack of a better term, those two 112's are king in my book.

[will33]

Originally Posted by socialleper

The part about the volume of 2x12s being higher than an average 1x15 I get. I also really like the idea of having two smaller cabs that will fit into my Mazda 3 better than a 1x15. I had to sell my 4x10 when I realized it wouldn't fit in my car any more.

The part that scares me the most is the loss of lows. Having two 12" speakers with ports makes sense, I'm just unsure if I can get the depth I want out of the B on my 5 string Warwick $$ from a 2x12 stack. I'm looking for a Geezer Butler, Bob Daisley, Bryan Richie (The Sword) kind of tone, not anything super brite or too extreme in the high mids. Any recommendations for some 112s that will stack to do this?

The Genz NeoX is one of my personal favorites. They'll get a little character when pushed and aren't lacking for a full bottom at all, but there's so much stuff out there now from budget stuff that sounds good to top notch engineered small builder brands you really need to go out and try a bunch of stuff...find something you like. It's an entirely different game from what it was 10 years ago. The old standbys are still here, and some always will be, SVT's, Mesa 15's, etc. but there are so many more options. Take some time, try some stuff, don't "settle" for something, you don't have to anymore.

[theduke1]

Genz Benz 12T I have 2 they rock alone or together!

[will33]

Originally Posted by KJung

+1 As you know, I am one who doesn't care about speaker size at all. The 'brightest, tightest' cab I've ever owned was a 15" Celestion loaded Schroeder, and the deepest and widest was a 10" loaded Acme.

I probably should have been clearer and stated that 'many small cabs with two drivers now outperform many traditional designed larger cabs with double the drivers, etc. '

Wasn't directed at you sir, rather advice for the OP. Just thought of it right then, that's all.

[lomo]

If you can look at various cabs' freq responses you will see that driver size does not correlate with low end.....at all. It's a bass (and guitar) players' myth that doesn't stand up to scrutiny. There are 15's that don't go as low as 410s and 12's that go lower than most 15s etc etc etc.

[FrenchBassQC]

I have a Berg HT112 and it is awesome, lots of range, bottom, punch and power. In fact, for small to medium venues, band rehersals, this is what I use... 300 watts is good enough.