Help me stop the tube snobbery in my band.

[nortonrider]

Originally Posted by creis2

My guitarist every so often tells me to bring my Ampeg, and when I try to explain to him my reasons, he starts soloing at staring into into space.

How about..........
the next time he suggest that you bring your Ampeg,
you just start soloing and staring off into space?

what's good for the goose and all of that.

[dhsierra1]

anyone with an ignorant viewpoint like that and then when you try to explain your reasoning isn't worth the time of day to convince one way or the other. I agree with those who say "disengage". Life's too short.

I love tube amps and use them, but for 90% of the situations ss will get me and the band what we all need, at least in most live settings. I don't care how my fellow band members get their tone as long as it's the right sound.

I work in a Allman Bros cover band and one of the guitarists uses a Strat. Heresy, yes? Nope. Modded so it gets a very sweet Gibson-like tone. Win-win: the band gets the right tone, the guitarist plays a guitar that works better for him .

[Bearded Wizard]

Originally Posted by nutdog

It doesn't really have anything to do with tubes/SS. The guitar player is nagging and then noodling while the op explains his amp choice. Nothing wrong with expressing a preference. But at some point you decide to take advice or not. Once you decide the advisor needs to shut up and get over it. Or kick him out, or quit or do whatever he thinks he needs to do. Nagging and noodling sound bad through tubes and solid state.

Well, as I alluded, the guitarist may be doing that to avoid conflict when he disagrees with the reasons for said choice. And, to me personally, I don't fault people for their communicative shortcomings, whether we find them annoying or not. No one is a perfect communicator.

But on deciding whether to take the advice, it doesn't seem the OP has really considered the guitarist's advice beyond being offended by it. It's that consideration that I'm advocating.

And once again, I'm glad I don't own an SVT if I'd have to quit every band that actually expected me to use it. Willingness to compromise is part of the skill of finding diplomatic solutions. That being a trait that has not been evident in most of the replies to this thread. If the OP didn't own the SVT in the first place, perhaps we wouldn't have a problem here, and if he owns it and doesn't intend to use it, as a collector, that should be easy enough to explain to anyone. It's easy to fault the communication skills of the guitarist, but I don't see the OP as having successfully communicated to the guitarist either. EDIT: There are ways to hold people's attention better than enumerating reasons for your personal preference that they don't agree with. There is common ground to be found. If the OP is stuck with his choice, he should find that common ground.

On a side note, it is my belief that most interpersonal issues in life are in fact communication issues. Effective communication would seem to be a lost art if one were to look at pop culture.

[nashvillebill]

If the guitar player had said "hey I believe if this song had more of a growly bass tone to it" or *anything* tangible, then his opinion would have some merit.

But to just say, "hey you need tubes" ? Total BS. That's not advice, that's not constructive, that's just unnecesary meddling.

[Nephilymbass]

It really is a bad band situation. Me and my bandmates talk about gear all the time and its not like that. We all agreed to downsize from the ampeg 810, marshall412 and Mesa 412. For many reasons. we were way to loud for one but we were all sick of moving it all. Now they both have 212s and im barrowing a 212 bass cab while I'm trying to sell my "fridge" to buy something smaller (hopefully 2 2x10s). I was in a band once with a guitar player that wouldn't play with people if they didn't have a tube amp. It lasted about two months. The guys I jam with right now I've have been playing on and off for over a decade and they've used everything you can imagine and the truth is goody musicians can make just about anything sound good and bad musicians will sound like crap no matter how much they spend on gear.

[dhsierra1]

Originally Posted by Bearded Wizard

Well, as I alluded, the guitarist may be doing that to avoid conflict when he disagrees with the reasons for said choice. And, to me personally, I don't fault people for their communicative shortcomings, whether we find them annoying or not. No one is a perfect communicator.

But on deciding whether to take the advice, it doesn't seem the OP has really considered the guitarist's advice beyond being offended by it. It's that consideration that I'm advocating.

And once again, I'm glad I don't own an SVT if I'd have to quit every band that actually expected me to use it. Willingness to compromise is part of the skill of finding diplomatic solutions. That being a trait that has not been evident in most of the replies to this thread. If the OP didn't own the SVT in the first place, perhaps we wouldn't have a problem here, and if he owns it and doesn't intend to use it, as a collector, that should be easy enough to explain to anyone. It's easy to fault the communication skills of the guitarist, but I don't see the OP as having successfully communicated to the guitarist either. EDIT: There are ways to hold people's attention better than enumerating reasons for your personal preference that they don't agree with. There is common ground to be found. If the OP is stuck with his choice, he should find that common ground.

On a side note, it is my belief that most interpersonal issues in life are in fact communication issues. Effective communication would seem to be a lost art if one were to look at pop culture.

agreed but what the OP has encountered -at least as far as what's been described here- is a flat hard one-way brick wall.

There appears to be no opportunity for diplomacy, negotiation or education. If there was some sort of opening, then yes it's worthwhile to seek the common ground. From what I'm gathering the OP has tried to open the dialog and has been unsuccessful for whatever reasons. It happens.

Therefore: disengagement is likely best if the band situation is worthwhile for him. YMMV, IMHO, IME, etc.

[FourBanger]

Do the mics used for vocals and possibly the drumkit go through a tube amp? Eh? Do they? Oh, they don't? The house PA everywhere is SS isn't it? Well...

Bad anology maybe, but the point is each instrument has its own way of getting amplified, while a bass guitar may or ma not be close toa guitar, a bass amp is not all that close to a guitar amp in a venue setting.

[BBox Bass]

Originally Posted by 45acp

Threads like these... and all the stories within... make me appreciate the guys in my band alot. This thread makes me want to bro-hug my guitar player.

+1!
I play in 2 bands with a guitarist who used to be a diehard Marshall fan, then several years ago he started using Line 6 amps after his brother-in-law got into them. I know a lot of people don't like them, but he had the patience to sit down and program his to make it sound great. He seems to have a knack with digital amps and processors, and even at band practice he gets my Roland Cube to do things that I can't make it do.

At one of our last shows, a guitarist in the audience approached him and said "What's your secret? I can't get my Marshalls to sound that good!" Two days ago when we heard that guy's band play, we agreed that saying his tone was not as good was an understatement. He was playing a Fender Relic through a boatload of boutique pedals and 2 Marshall combos, yet his tone was flabby and anemic. I found myself appreciating my guitarist even more that night.

Best of all, he only has good things to say about the tone I get with my GK micro head and multi-effects processors.

[rubbadubdub]

Clever Monikor you have made my day. The inventer of that masterpiece has a sense of humour.
The most rock and roll Berhinger ever. I want want one. It's even got secret stash compartments. And for such a wonderful artistic statement exceptional value for money. Does it turn up to eleven? I think CM has found a solution to the problem.
I would love to see your guitarists face if you turned up at your next gig with that.
He would either see the funny side or not.
I'm sure that making a joke of this is upsetting some folks but sometimes having a laugh can break the ice and smooth conflict. You need to find out why your guitarist thinks you should use your Ampeg away from work when you can have a proper discussion.
If it's just because he thinks it's more rock and roll you could ask him why rock has to stick to stereotypes and the same old thing. He may have a valid point. Maybe your fans expect all the standard issue items.
I would be surprised though as from what I can tell rock music is one of the most progressive genres of music around. Check out some of those European bands who are really pushing the envelope. Some of their bass players are getting awesome new sounds, nothing like the p bass through an Ampeg , awesome though it is, and they aren't short of fans.

[Bearded Wizard]

Originally Posted by dhsierra1

agreed but what the OP has encountered -at least as far as what's been described here- is a flat hard one-way brick wall.

There appears to be no opportunity for diplomacy, negotiation or education. If there was some sort of opening, then yes it's worthwhile to seek the common ground. From what I'm gathering the OP has tried to open the dialog and has been unsuccessful for whatever reasons. It happens.

Therefore: disengagement is likely best if the band situation is worthwhile for him. YMMV, IMHO, IME, etc.

You still seem to assume that the Genz Benz is the best bass amplification solution for the band. Maybe it's not the guitarist who needs educating. I can't say as I don't know the details, the OP hasn't even specified what genre of music is being played let alone what the guitarists are using, what their audience is and what they expect, etc. But, if one were to look at the rigs of professional bands, one might be inclined to draw the conclusion that the SVT is more appropriate for more situations than the Genz. I sense a lot of anti-SVT sentiment in this thread, but I think we should face the fact that the Ampeg and Genz are two very different beasts, and as such one or the other may or may not be more appropriate for the music that is being played, the audience that is at the shows, etc. But I don't see a lot of discussion considering that point here.

Again, no one is telling the OP to buy a new rig. He already has the SVT. I for one don't see a point in buying a rig in the first place if I don't intend to use it, but if he wants to keep it as a collector and not gig it, that should be easy enough to explain to anyone, including any guitarist, but the OP hasn't expressed that he's presented that to his guitarist.

[dhsierra1]

Originally Posted by Bearded Wizard

You still seem to assume that the Genz Benz is the best bass amplification solution for the band. Maybe it's not the guitarist who needs educating. I can't say as I don't know the details, the OP hasn't even specified what genre of music is being played let alone what the guitarists are using, what their audience is and what they expect, etc. But, if one were to look at the rigs of professional bands, one might be inclined to draw the conclusion that the SVT is more appropriate for more situations than the Genz. I sense a lot of anti-SVT sentiment in this thread, but I think we should face the fact that the Ampeg and Genz are two very different beasts, and as such one or the other may or may not be more appropriate for the music that is being played, the audience that is at the shows, etc. But I don't see a lot of discussion considering that point here.

Again, no one is telling the OP to buy a new rig. He already has the SVT. I for one don't see a point in buying a rig in the first place if I don't intend to use it, but if he wants to keep it as a collector and not gig it, that should be easy enough to explain to anyone, including any guitarist, but the OP hasn't expressed that he's presented that to his guitarist.

have you heard a GB SL900 vs a SVT? I recommend an A/B session sometime with the appropriate 810. Especially in a band setting.

What the OP seems to be dealing with is prejudice and ignorance that isn't going to be enlightened one way or the other.

Again, we don't have all the details involved so I'm just going on the few facts we've been given. That said, I've been in similar situations with things being that simplistic. You can lead a horse to water but.......... So it's a matter of what's worth your time. This isn't.

[Bearded Wizard]

Originally Posted by dhsierra1

have you heard a GB SL900 vs a SVT? I recommend an A/B session sometime with the appropriate 810. Especially in a band setting.

What the OP seems to be dealing with is prejudice and ignorance that isn't going to be enlightened one way or the other.

Again, we don't have all the details involved so I'm just going on the few facts we've been given. That said, I've been in similar situations with things being that simplistic. You can lead a horse to water but.......... So it's a matter of what's worth your time. This isn't.

I have tried those rigs and, to me, they are drastically different, and I don't see that that should surprise anyone, as they are vastly different in construction and technology.

To say the guitarist is displaying prejudice and ignorace is to assume that there is no difference between an Ampeg SVT and a Genz Benz Streamliner. Even if the electronics weren't vastly different, and even if they were to react the same to a particular person's playing, a long shot though it may be (though I only play like me and don't know how everyone else plays so I will say it's possible), there are still the issues of band image, etc. Which in certain gigging situations are important issues, let's not pretend that they're not. And without more information, we can't say that they're irrelevant.

When we listen to others, as we should, we have to keep an open mind, even if we don't like what they say. They may have reasons that we have not thought of.

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by creis2

How can I explain this to an airhead in a quick, convincing and polite argument.

Tube snobbery is a most insidious ailment. Once it takes root, it can be nearly impossible to root out.

In its most extreme infestations, the host must simply be abandoned. Good luck. Hope you've caught it in time...

MM

[two fingers]

Originally Posted by slagbass

I have a hard time imagining the scenario where this would actually fool anybody.

Seriously? Not only would it work on MOST guitar players, but quite a few bass players as well! I bet you $100 you could get most young bass players at a festival on stage and run this trick.

Run the bass into a DI box in the middle of a bunch of cables so they can't see which cable is going where. They think they are running through an SVT.

Behind the SVT you could put a Streamliner (or any number of amps) and run it through that fridge. They would never ever know they weren't going through the SVT head but they would LOVE the tone just because of what they THINK it's coming out of.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

Tube snobbery is a most insidious aliment. Once it takes root, it can be nearly impossible to root out.

Boy is that true! I certainly can't shake mine. I can in certain situations, but it's hard!

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by two fingers

Seriously? Not only would it work on MOST guitar players, but quite a few bass players as well! I bet you $100 you could get most young bass players at a festival on stage and run this trick.

Run the bass into a DI box in the middle of a bunch of cables so they can't see which cable is going where. They think they are running through an SVT.

Behind the SVT you could put a Streamliner (or any number of amps) and run it through that fridge. They would never ever know they weren't going through the SVT head but they would LOVE the tone just because of what they THINK it's coming out of.

Ah, the old "Everyone is stupid but me" trick. Good one!

[Bearded Wizard]

I'd say there's more solid state snobbery than tube snobbery in this here thread...

[cyclopsbookworm]

Is it wrong that I play my bass through a tube guitar amp and my guitar through an SS bass amp?

[alembicguy]

Run what ya brung!

[two fingers]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Ah, the old "Everyone is stupid but me" trick. Good one!

I didn't say that. I would argue that even as many years as I have been playing bass, and as many Ampeg rigs as I have owned, I would have a really hard time picking out an SVT in certain mixes. A loud rock band being one of them. If you put a black curtain in front of the bass rig, I would take bets with any of you who could just name the bass rig from the floor with a loud rock band playing. Especially if the bass player is usung a VT, SABDDI, or something like that, many of us (myself included) wouldn't be a accurate as you might think. And MOST guitar players couldn't pick the SVT out of a crowd in a blind test either.

But I never ever said I was any better at it than anyone else. You added 2+2 and came up with 75.

The short version is that in a loud band mix, nobody in the audience cares. You look the part and play the right songs and absolutely NOBODY cares what rig you bring. You could set a tiny little Shuttle 6.0 (which I have done) on stage and not only will they not care, they won't KNOW.

Our Ampegs are on stage for US, pure and simple. I love mine. But I am the ONLY person in the entire room at almost every gig who gives a crap. So for some guitar player to get all holier than thou over a bass rig is just stupid. Shut up and play guitar.

"Appropriate rig" my big old butt.