Help.. Multiple amps

[duderus]

So I have an Idea but I need your help. I have an Pre Amp out that I am considering using to go into the input jack on my Epifani UL502 and I want to connect my mesa boogie impulse 600. I want to be able to switch between both amp or use both of them.

Some of what I read said not to do this, but in my Epifani manual it says I can go from a preamp out into a power amp. ( I went into the input jack.

Is it possible to do this without a switcher box? For some reason I I think it will. I tried it at a low volume and it seems to be ok, but I don't want to rock my cabs or amp heads out. Please let me know.

[bassgod0dmw]

To switch between both amps or combine them you will need a switcher box of some sort.

The easiest way would be to have each head connected to their own separate cabinet, then use an ABY box to switch between them.

[BassmanPaul]

Don't connect two different amps to the same single cabinet. That's how you release the smoke.

[Mykk]

Well....

I'm not sure how the effects loop works on your amps. But perhaps my Mesa M-2000 and Eden WTDI set up can give you some ideas:



I use the tuner out instead of Pre out from the mesa because it's an unaltered signal from the instrument. This way the Mesa colored tone isn't sent to the Eden. I use the effects blend to allow me to parallel 3 pre-amps simultaneously (The mesa tube channel, mesa FET channel and Eden WTDI)


By using the tuner (or DI "pre EQ" signal) out, going to the aux pre-amp and back into FX loop in. Your footswitch could turn on/off the FX loop and would allow you to switch Pre-amps to one or the other on the fly. I don't know about your FX loop return, but on my M-2000 the master volume is post FX return and still has main control. If yours doesn't just make sure your aux pre-amp's volume is adjusted to compensate for the possible "wide open throttle" of the poweramp FX return

Also, if your like me and use your mute often. On the M-2000 the mute is post FX return (I assume the M-pulse is similar) and still mutes all sounds from the internal or external pre-amps yet still sends a signal to the tuner out.

[duderus]

Originally Posted by Mykk

Well....

I'm not sure how the effects loop works on your amps. But perhaps my Mesa M-2000 and Eden WTDI set up can give you some ideas:



I use the tuner out instead of Pre out from the mesa because it's an unaltered signal from the instrument. This way the Mesa colored tone isn't sent to the Eden. I use the effects blend to allow me to parallel 3 pre-amps simultaneously (The mesa tube channel, mesa FET channel and Eden WTDI)


By using the tuner (or DI "pre EQ" signal) out, going to the aux pre-amp and back into FX loop in. Your footswitch could turn on/off the FX loop and would allow you to switch Pre-amps to one or the other on the fly. I don't know about your FX loop return, but on my M-2000 the master volume is post FX return and still has main control. If yours doesn't just make sure your aux pre-amp's volume is adjusted to compensate for the possible "wide open throttle" of the poweramp FX return

Also, if your like me and use your mute often. On the M-2000 the mute is post FX return (I assume the M-pulse is similar) and still mutes all sounds from the internal or external pre-amps yet still sends a signal to the tuner out.

***You just gave me an idea, what type of power amp should i use if I want to amplify the same tone going to my one rig to another 2x12 600 w at 4 ohm cab?

[Mykk]

Originally Posted by duderus

***You just gave me an idea, what type of power amp should i use if I want to amplify the same tone going to my one rig to another 2x12 600 w at 4 ohm cab?

Any poweramp of your choice. I picked up an inexpensive Behringer to get me out of a jam on the way to a show one night and it sounded good, was plenty loud and it still works night after night. I also like that the Class D is lightweight.


From what I read of your amps, a Boogie and an Epifani. You should already have enough gear to drive multiple cabs without an external poweramp. Just send the pre-amp out from one rig to the FX return of the other head powering the other cab.

[duderus]

Great that is what i Was thinking too. So the epifani to teh mesa boogie effects return. Since this amp has a tube pra amp, would i be able to hear that tone? or is simply acting link a power amp.

(I think I was just hearing the epifani through the mesa boogie.)

Should I be able to control any volume with the mesa boogie? When I did this I could hear through my other cab, but I did not hear or have any control with the mesa.


Your quick responses have been much appreciated. Thank you!

[duderus]

Originally Posted by Mykk

Any poweramp of your choice. I picked up an inexpensive Behringer to get me out of a jam on the way to a show one night and it sounded good, was plenty loud and it still works night after night. I also like that the Class D is lightweight.


From what I read of your amps, a Boogie and an Epifani. You should already have enough gear to drive multiple cabs without an external poweramp. Just send the pre-amp out from one rig to the FX return of the other head powering the other cab.

Great that is what i Was thinking too. So the epifani to teh mesa boogie effects return. Since this amp has a tube pra amp, would i be able to hear that tone? or is simply acting link a power amp.

(I think I was just hearing the epifani through the mesa boogie.)

Should I be able to control any volume with the mesa boogie? When I did this I could hear through my other cab, but I did not hear or have any control with the mesa.


Your quick responses have been much appreciated. Thank you!

[Mykk]

Trial and error. As far as I know you should independant volume controls with the mesa as a poweramp...

Unless you run your amps like how I have mine, you'll be bypassing the tone section of the "slave" amp that your just connecting into the FX return. Otherwise you could run the pre's of each amp in parallel and blend them into each other.

[BassmanPaul]

I have a sense of Deja Vous!

[duderus]

Originally Posted by Mykk

Trial and error. As far as I know you should independant volume controls with the mesa as a poweramp...

Unless you run your amps like how I have mine, you'll be bypassing the tone section of the "slave" amp that your just connecting into the FX return. Otherwise you could run the pre's of each amp in parallel and blend them into each other.

OK great. I am currently running the mesa as a power amp. How could I run them both and blend them? I would need a box right?

What would you recommend personally and what type of music do you play? (Looks like your amps are quite similar to mine. Thank you for all your time today!)

DP

[Mykk]

In order to do a blend, here is what you do:

Instrument input into Mesa.

Tuner out of Mesa to Epifani instrument input. Preamp out of Epiphani to Mesa FX return and have the FX blend at 50%

Match the Epifani and Mesa pre-amp volumes to be equal (or bias one or the other if you'd like). Then, you can run the Mesa XLR out in "post" mode to the FX return of the Epifani in "series" mode... this will have a blend of both Mesa and Epifani pre-amps going to the power amp sections of both amps to drive separate cabs. Again, this might take some experimenting.

EDIT: The M-pulse 600 has a slave out? That could go directly the Epifani FX return.

I personally like having the ability to blend and mix different manufacturers pre-amps. The Mesa M-2000 has a great tube gnarl and bite that does the majority of the mids in my mix. The Mesa's FET channel has solid low-mids and clear highs. The Eden WTDI has really thick dubby type lows.

I want to play hard rock originals and some prog metal type of stuff. For work in Hollywood I play electronic dance & pop/rock. I also do hard rock and 90's rock/alternative covers in a bar band.

My opinion does not flow with the general census here on TB.

[duderus]

Originally Posted by Mykk

In order to do a blend, here is what you do:

Instrument input into Mesa.

Tuner out of Mesa to Epifani instrument input. Preamp out of Epiphani to Mesa FX return and have the FX blend at 50%

Match the Epifani and Mesa pre-amp volumes to be equal (or bias one or the other if you'd like). Then, you can run the Mesa XLR out in "post" mode to the FX return of the Epifani in "series" mode... this will have a blend of both Mesa and Epifani pre-amps going to the power amp sections of both amps to drive separate cabs. Again, this might take some experimenting.

EDIT: The M-pulse 600 has a slave out? That could go directly the Epifani FX return.

I personally like having the ability to blend and mix different manufacturers pre-amps. The Mesa M-2000 has a great tube gnarl and bite that does the majority of the mids in my mix. The Mesa's FET channel has solid low-mids and clear highs. The Eden WTDI has really thick dubby type lows.

I want to play hard rock originals and some prog metal type of stuff. For work in Hollywood I play electronic dance & pop/rock. I also do hard rock and 90's rock/alternative covers in a bar band.

My opinion does not flow with the general census here on TB.

OK Right now I am all epifani with the mpulse acting as a power amp. I like it a lot and I shall try to combine amps soon. However, with this current set up, i am getting a ton of buz through the cab connected to the mpulse. I tried lowering the blend and the buz gets louder. The blend seems to be my only control over the output of the mpulse in the state I have it.

TO review I have the preamp out going into the effects return of the mpulse.

In either case I think it is running really HOT so that is why there is buzzing. I mean I feel like 600 watts are being fed to the amp and the master control on the other amp (epifani) controls how loud the entire rig will be. When I turn off the mpulse and crank the epifani while muted there is a buz as well too. That is why I feel the mpulse is running hot.

Please let me know if there is a way to get rid of this buz or something.

(I like the idea of blending, other people don't agree with you? I feel the same about the mesa tone and the epifani would uld act like your eden if i combined. )

[duderus]

Originally Posted by Mykk

In order to do a blend, here is what you do:

Instrument input into Mesa.

Tuner out of Mesa to Epifani instrument input. Preamp out of Epiphani to Mesa FX return and have the FX blend at 50%

Match the Epifani and Mesa pre-amp volumes to be equal (or bias one or the other if you'd like). Then, you can run the Mesa XLR out in "post" mode to the FX return of the Epifani in "series" mode... this will have a blend of both Mesa and Epifani pre-amps going to the power amp sections of both amps to drive separate cabs. Again, this might take some experimenting.

EDIT: The M-pulse 600 has a slave out? That could go directly the Epifani FX return.

I personally like having the ability to blend and mix different manufacturers pre-amps. The Mesa M-2000 has a great tube gnarl and bite that does the majority of the mids in my mix. The Mesa's FET channel has solid low-mids and clear highs. The Eden WTDI has really thick dubby type lows.

I want to play hard rock originals and some prog metal type of stuff. For work in Hollywood I play electronic dance & pop/rock. I also do hard rock and 90's rock/alternative covers in a bar band.

My opinion does not flow with the general census here on TB.

First, once again thank you for your help. Many of things I could never understand make sense now. Yet, I still have questions...
OK I just blended and so far I love it. What do you do now if you want to connect effects? Just curious. I also have XLR out from the Mesa has a level out. Should I do 100% on this one? My Effects mix is at 50% but I am not sure about the XLR out.

Honestly this is what I originally wanted. I am l liking the tonal capabilities of not only using one or more amps, but the option to switch amps with what I have....

[Mykk]

I keep the XLR level out @ 100% going to my slave poweramp. Start at 100%, if it sounds like you are getting a bit of distortion from the Epifani turn down the level knob. If your Mesa has that Slave level 1/4" out and seperate adjustable level I'd suggest going that way so you can leave your D.I. open for P.A. support during live shows. (Granted, sending your EQ'd signal out to the house P.A. sparks a whole other conversation)

What kind of effects are you using? Were you previously using effects in the amplifiers effects loop? I am not big on effects, but the ones I have used (Line6 PodPRO pedalboard, Malekko B:Assmaster, and a Behringer Space Chorus C) have all been in-line between my bass and the amps input.

I do however, on occasion flip on the the tube hi-gain channel on my Mesa and dial it in. I still get a thick full sound from the two parallel clean channels and a chunky grit from the distorted tube channel.

[duderus]

Originally Posted by Mykk

I keep the XLR level out @ 100% going to my slave poweramp. Start at 100%, if it sounds like you are getting a bit of distortion from the Epifani turn down the level knob. If your Mesa has that Slave level 1/4" out and seperate adjustable level I'd suggest going that way so you can leave your D.I. open for P.A. support during live shows. (Granted, sending your EQ'd signal out to the house P.A. sparks a whole other conversation)

What kind of effects are you using? Were you previously using effects in the amplifiers effects loop? I am not big on effects, but the ones I have used (Line6 PodPRO pedalboard, Malekko B:Assmaster, and a Behringer Space Chorus C) have all been in-line between my bass and the amps input.

I do however, on occasion flip on the the tube hi-gain channel on my Mesa and dial it in. I still get a thick full sound from the two parallel clean channels and a chunky grit from the distorted tube channel.

I love the blending of my two favorite amps! Thank you.
XLR out when blending: Do I go 100%? I know you told me Epifani to Mesa at 50% blend but I am not sure about the xlr o ut (50 or 100%) to the epifani.

This is great!

[Mykk]

Originally Posted by duderus

XLR out when blending: Do I go 100%? I know you told me Epifani to Mesa at 50% blend but I am not sure about the xlr o ut (50 or 100%) to the epifani.

Originally Posted by Mykk

I keep the XLR level out @ 100% going to my slave poweramp. Start at 100%, if it sounds like you are getting a bit of distortion from the Epifani turn down the level knob. If your Mesa has that Slave level 1/4" out and seperate adjustable level I'd suggest going that way so you can leave your D.I. open for P.A. support during live shows.

Better yet, start at 0% and gradually roll up to 100% at first. Just in case the Epifani FX return is post main volume.

[duderus]

Originally Posted by Mykk

Better yet, start at 0% and gradually roll up to 100% at first. Just in case the Epifani FX return is post main volume.

effects i use is BBE sonic once and a while

[duderus]

Originally Posted by Mykk

In order to do a blend, here is what you do:

Instrument input into Mesa.

Tuner out of Mesa to Epifani instrument input. Preamp out of Epiphani to Mesa FX return and have the FX blend at 50%

Match the Epifani and Mesa pre-amp volumes to be equal (or bias one or the other if you'd like). Then, you can run the Mesa XLR out in "post" mode to the FX return of the Epifani in "series" mode... this will have a blend of both Mesa and Epifani pre-amps going to the power amp sections of both amps to drive separate cabs. Again, this might take some experimenting.

EDIT: The M-pulse 600 has a slave out? That could go directly the Epifani FX return.

I personally like having the ability to blend and mix different manufacturers pre-amps. The Mesa M-2000 has a great tube gnarl and bite that does the majority of the mids in my mix. The Mesa's FET channel has solid low-mids and clear highs. The Eden WTDI has really thick dubby type lows.

I want to play hard rock originals and some prog metal type of stuff. For work in Hollywood I play electronic dance & pop/rock. I also do hard rock and 90's rock/alternative covers in a bar band.

My opinion does not flow with the general census here on TB.

So I mixed using what u had above and it is wonderful. I have an extra DI out before all eq settings going to the board on the epifani which is great (I think) . Therefore they are mixed and going to different amps. Amazing! However, my slave out on the mpulse is still open. Could I use that instead of the DI from the mesa to the epifani or is that a no no.

Is it possible to run effects (Such as my Sonic Maximizer) through the epifani if I set it to parallel? I sometimes use a distortion and wah effect too. How could i run these?

Thank u

[Mykk]

Originally Posted by duderus

However, my slave out on the mpulse is still open. Could I use that instead of the DI from the mesa to the epifani or is that a no no.

Is it possible to run effects (Such as my Sonic Maximizer) through the epifani if I set it to parallel? I sometimes use a distortion and wah effect too. How could i run these?

Thank u

Originally Posted by Mykk

The M-pulse 600 has a slave out? That could go directly the Epifani FX return.

Originally Posted by Mykk

If your Mesa has that Slave level 1/4" out and separate adjustable level I'd suggest going that way

As for the BBE, I ran one for a while downstream of my old Ampeg SVT-IIP preamp. It sounded great there, once I got my Mesa the Sonic Maximizer actually detracted from the sweet Mesa tone. But, everyone's ears and tone preferences are different.

The Sonic Maximizer is really meant to be the final tone stage before being amplified by the poweramps.

The only way I can think of to keep the BBE in the loop is if you were using only the Epifani head to power a cab, and not the Mesa. Put the BBE in-line between the Mesa's Line/XLR out and the Epifani's FX loop return in 'series' mode.