Hey Kjung-EBS TD650 versus Genz Streamliner 600/900 versus EBS Fafner II

[Modulus1906]

Hey Kjung

I'm reviving an old thread since so much has happended with gear since this thread (i.e., you formerly owned a TD650). Your reputation as a guy who has owned just about everything precedes you so I would like to ask for your impression of the EBS TD650 versus the Genz Streamliner 900 that's all the rave now. I have a 650 but am considering adding a Streamliner 900 and/or an EBS Fafner II. What are are your impressions of the 650 versus the 900 mainly, and can you speculate any about the Fafner II? That Fafner II looks interesting to say the least. Does anybody else have any insight? Thanks

[Modulus1906]

I wanted to piggy back off the old thread (with a twist relative to the newer amps I mentioned)) but I couldn't get the title to state what i wanted, so I just started a new thread. I haven't been able to determine how to delete my post in the old thread such that it doesn't duplicate my new thread. Any ideas? Thanks

[KJung]

Holy cow. I dip into Talkbass for a day to say hey, and I'm getting called out already

Very quicky, as you know the EBS 650 is bright and modern and voiced somewhat 'hi fi' as we use that term on TB... sizzly top end, a bit of a mid scoop, and reasonably big low end.

The Streamliner is IMO all about emulating clean, modern, all tube tone. It is massively 'fatter' sounding than the 650, is MUCH louder at 4ohms (but will not do 2), and has a smooth, organic top end versus the very solid state sizzle.

While the 650 has a 'tube drive' control (with a real tube), it will kind of grind and grunt a bit like the Streamliner when the pre is pushed, but it will, in no way, do that 'big tube amp run clean' sort of warm, fat, organic tone.

Hard to put into words.

I'm not familiar enough with the Fafner to comment, but my limited GTG experience says it sits right between the two.

Hope that helps a little bit. If you dig the kind of Bob Glaub sort of tone, or Duck Dunn or any of those guys.... i.e., that 'clean but totally fat and organic' sort of tone, the Streamliner900 is a dream. IMO

[pacojas]

i love it!!!

Ken is the "Player President of Gear Reviews"

[mstott25]

Originally Posted by pacojas

i love it!!!

Ken is the "Player President of Gear Reviews"

Seriously, the guy consistently puts out the most informative and descriptive reviews. I look to see what KJung says about a topic before I go anywhere else. He's pissed off some fanboys and builders in the process but he's always been consistent and honest. I picked up my Hartke LH500 based on his reviews and they were dead on, even if he's reviewing gear he doesn't personally own or think is the best, his terminology is very articulate and provides a clear description which a lot of guys just can't do.

[Modulus1906]

Originally Posted by KJung

Holy cow. I dip into Talkbass for a day to say hey, and I'm getting called out already

Very quicky, as you know the EBS 650 is bright and modern and voiced somewhat 'hi fi' as we use that term on TB... sizzly top end, a bit of a mid scoop, and reasonably big low end.

The Streamliner is IMO all about emulating clean, modern, all tube tone. It is massively 'fatter' sounding than the 650, is MUCH louder at 4ohms (but will not do 2), and has a smooth, organic top end versus the very solid state sizzle.

While the 650 has a 'tube drive' control (with a real tube), it will kind of grind and grunt a bit like the Streamliner when the pre is pushed, but it will, in no way, do that 'big tube amp run clean' sort of warm, fat, organic tone.

Hard to put into words.

I'm not familiar enough with the Fafner to comment, but my limited GTG experience says it sits right between the two.

Hope that helps a little bit. If you dig the kind of Bob Glaub sort of tone, or Duck Dunn or any of those guys.... i.e., that 'clean but totally fat and organic' sort of tone, the Streamliner900 is a dream. IMO

Thank you sir and +1000 to what "mstott25" says below. I sought you out specifically because you are the Ed Friedland of Talkbass. I've followed a number of your posts and you have a way of explaining technical things that us "average guys" can "see", not to mention your familarity with a myriad of different gear pieces. It amazes me frankly. Thanks for that!! On the review, sounds like the Streamliner wouldn't be redundant to the TD650. How's the crispy/brilliant low-mid bite on the Streamliner? I just have to get over my mindset that these smaller amps cannot possibly compete or sound bigger than the more traditional-sized amps with similar specs. I've been hesitant to purchase one on that basis. I keep expecting there to be a catch but can't help but notice the buzz this new Genz has generated such that I'm interested. I have an EBS Proline 410 cab and am wondering whether you think the Streamliner would pair ok with that? Thanks again

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Modulus1906

Thank you sir and +1000 to what "mstott25" says below. I sought you out specifically because you are the Ed Friedland of Talkbass. I've followed a number of your posts and you have a way of explaining technical things that us "average guys" can "see", not to mention your familarity with a myriad of different gear pieces. It amazes me frankly. Thanks for that!! On the review, sounds like the Streamliner wouldn't be redundant to the TD650. How's the crispy/brilliant low-mid bite on the Streamliner? I just have to get over my mindset that these smaller amps cannot possibly compete or sound bigger than the more traditional-sized amps with similar specs. I've been hesitant to purchase one on that basis. I keep expecting there to be a catch but can't help but notice the buzz this new Genz has generated such that I'm interested. I have an EBS Proline 410 cab and am wondering whether you think the Streamliner would pair ok with that? Thanks again

Thanks for the nice comments guys. I do love the gear

The small stuff is just kicking these days. Zero lack of headroom or oomph or whatever any more.

If you were going to REPLACE your TD650 with a lighter head, I'd say take a look at the Shuttle Max 9. It is somewhat similar in vibe to the TD650 (i.e., modern, punchy, nice and brite up top, etc.) and also has a tube channel and solid state channel that kind of does the vibe of bringing the tube drive in and out of your TD650. It isn't really meant to vibe an all tube head like the Streamliner, but rather to sweeten the tone a little like most hybrid amps.

If you want something that is quite different from your TD650, the Streamliner might be the ticket. The tone controls are very interactive (like on some of the Mesa heads). There is a LOT of sound in the input gain, and the ratio between the various mid frequency settings and the low end. Set 'flat/neutral' out of the box, it is more 'big and fat and warm' than particularly punchy. However, the punch is in there. It again is not going to to that 'tight modern' thing that the TD650 does. However, the Shuttle Max 6 or 9 (depending on how much volume you need) will, and the 9 at 4ohms will BURY your TD650 at 4ohm, IMO, and IME!

If you are looking for a micro amp that is SUPER modern... big low end, sizzly top end, aggressive voicing... the GK MB500 and new GKMB800 are also interesting (haven't heard the 800.... I'm assuming it sounds like the 500 with more headroom). VERY aggressively voiced with massive low end and super goosed upper treble response. Not my thing, but it kind of does the TD650 thing with the brite control cranked up a bit and the driver engaged in solid state mode.

Hope that helps!

[pacojas]

Originally Posted by mstott25

Seriously, the guy consistently puts out the most informative and descriptive reviews. I look to see what KJung says about a topic before I go anywhere else. He's pissed off some fanboys and builders in the process but he's always been consistent and honest. I picked up my Hartke LH500 based on his reviews and they were dead on, even if he's reviewing gear he doesn't personally own or think is the best, his terminology is very articulate and provides a clear description which a lot of guys just can't do.

true dat!

i bought two Mark Bass amps on Ken's recommendations!

THANKS KEN!!!

[Musicman20]

Ken, a magazine should hire you! I know you do this because you enjoy it, but I think your reviews are excellent.

[Modulus1906]

Thanks guys. I'm seriously considering the Streamliner 900. Since my posting yesterday, I've developed an interest in the new Epifani UL501 as well. PeAcE from the ATL!!!!

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by mstott25

Seriously, the guy consistently puts out the most informative and descriptive reviews. I look to see what KJung says about a topic before I go anywhere else. He's pissed off some fanboys and builders in the process but he's always been consistent and honest. I picked up my Hartke LH500 based on his reviews and they were dead on, even if he's reviewing gear he doesn't personally own or think is the best, his terminology is very articulate and provides a clear description which a lot of guys just can't do.

Ya, Ken's only flaw is not liking tube amps but otherwise I enjoy his gear impressions and I find they're pretty right on the money when I try stuff he's tried.

[gillento]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Ya, Ken's only flaw is not liking tube amps but otherwise I enjoy his gear impressions and I find they're pretty right on the money when I try stuff he's tried.

Well, he kind of liked the SA200

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by gillento

Well, he kind of liked the SA200

I have a theory about that...I think it's because it's voiced more for folks who play and sound like him rather than the Ampeg masses.

[greenbass5]

Ya know, I've come to the conclusion that I will probably never actually see an SA200 in person. Can anyone point me to a good recording of the thing?