Hi-Fi bass cabs

[gregbackstrom]

I've been having trouble getting my new Sadowsky 24 fret 5 string (w/ soapbars) to sound the way I'd like it to w/ my Bergantino AE cabs. On a whim, I ran the bass through an Aggie DB680 into a set of powered QSC PA speakers w/ powered sub. Wow - THAT'S my sound.

But I don't want to carry that much gear around, so I'm wondering what speakers are available that are really flat from 20Hz to 20kHz (give or take). I know Acme Low B2's are fairly flat. Are there others? I'm trying to produce the SPL of a loud 410 cabinet.

Thanks!

[DONZI97]

easy answer

fEARful

[Leakim]

The TKS speakers are growing in popularity and reputation here in Sweden and Scandinavia.
BASBLOGGEN.se testar TKS 1126 | BASBLOGGEN.se | VideofyMe

Sorry just in swedish, but 1126 are supposed to have a studiomonitor like response.

[77PBass]

Why do you assume flat is what you want? Do you think the QSC PA was "flat"?

Bergs are hi-fi bass cabs. The neo cabs have a sound that isn't for everyone.

You can try BFM's, fEarful or if you have a lot of scratch, check out Meyer Sound powered cabs.

[rad bassman]

Originally Posted by DONZI97

easy answer

fEARful

+1

fEARful website FAQ's
A 12/6 is almost as loud as most 210 cabs with one watt input, and more extended in response. When driven fully it can get nearly as loud as a good 410. The fEARFUL will sound fuller while maintaining clarity, and will disperse wider. It will not lose its punch when driven hard.

A 15/6 is as loud as most 310 cabs with one watt input, and more extended in response. With a lot of watts it can get as loud or louder than a 610 driven to its limits, and will sound fuller and more responsive while doing it.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by gregbackstrom

I'm wondering what speakers are available that are really flat from 20Hz to 20kHz (give or take).

None. The good news is that you don't need to go that low; the QSC rig you used doesn't, nor even close to it.

[deb]

I'd PM KJung and ask for his opinion.

deb

[gregbackstrom]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

None. The good news is that you don't need to go that low; the QSC rig you used doesn't, nor even close to it.

Yep! I used that phrase pretty carelessly! What I meant by saying that is that I'm looking for a cab that's pretty flat across the typically performance spectrum---maybe 40ish Hz to 15kHz. Something voiced flat, rather than with the intentional midrange bump that's in so many bass cabs. But not too big and heavy ...

[gregbackstrom]

Originally Posted by 77PBass

Why do you assume flat is what you want? Do you think the QSC PA was "flat"?

Bergs are hi-fi bass cabs. The neo cabs have a sound that isn't for everyone.

You can try BFM's, fEarful or if you have a lot of scratch, check out Meyer Sound powered cabs.

The QSC PA sounded much more even and hi-fi when I played CD's through it. That was my test. The bergs--which I love, BTW--sounded more nasal. They're certainly clear, powerful and well-built and sound great with most of my basses. Just not as much with the Sadowsky soapbars.

I'm looking for something reasonably light, so the Meyers won't work. Acme's may be the best choice. I'm just wondering what else is voiced like them.

[BurningSkies]

Originally Posted by 77PBass

Why do you assume flat is what you want? Do you think the QSC PA was "flat"?

I bet the QSC is a lot closer to flat than the Berg. The Berg is designed for a specific instrument and tone. The QSC, like most PA gear isn't designed for one instrument and is most likely way closer to neutral tonally than a bass cabinet. That's why so many guys are moving from traditional bass cabs to dedicated 2 and 3 way cabs that are much closer to PA gear...to get away from a default voicing that's hard to EQ out.

Originally Posted by 77PBass

Bergs are hi-fi bass cabs. The neo cabs have a sound that isn't for everyone.

1. Jim makes nice bass cabs. His cabs may be seen as 'hi-fi' in comparison to many standard production cabs, but they're not the same as PA cabs or 2 or 3 way designs with dedicated crossovers.

2. Neo cabs don't have 'a sound'. They have as much diversity in tone as cabs based around 'traditional' magnet speakers. If people would stop shoving neo speakers randomly into cabs that were designed for other speakers this wouldn't be as much of a problem.

Originally Posted by 77PBass

You can try BFM's, fEarful or if you have a lot of scratch, check out Meyer Sound powered cabs.

I would consider the wide variety of 2 and 3 way speakers that are now available. Of course, I'm happy to tell you that fEARfuls do what you're asking quite astoundingly, but you could also check out Barefaced, BFM designs, the Avatar TB153, the new Acme offerings, etc.

If you can sit tight for a couple of weeks (Mid October?) BGM will be having a feature article on the fEARful Phenomenon...that should put some serious light on these designs.

[anonymous101511]

get a small powered sub and a 1x12 plus horn powered cab (all PA stuff)
EV makes a sweet 12" powered sub that will surprise you. Add a matching 1x12 powered EV PA speaker and you're rockin"!
It will cost probably less than half of what a 'boutique' bass amp would and probably sound better. I love playing through pro sound gear, I have a single 18 cab and a 1x15 plus horn 'PAS' brand bi- amp rig that kills!

[Larry Cotten]

I have a Mark Bass 4-10 cab that had a tweeter problem. I took it in here in Denver for warranty repair and after a month got it back. I've used it once since and now it has the same buzz as before. Has anyone had a similar problem with Mark Bass?

[B-string]

Originally Posted by Larry Cotten

I have a Mark Bass 4-10 cab that had a tweeter problem. I took it in here in Denver for warranty repair and after a month got it back. I've used it once since and now it has the same buzz as before. Has anyone had a similar problem with Mark Bass?

OT but I have heard the tweeters are the weak link in MarkBass cabs. Upgrade the tweeter when the warr. runs out, for now turn it off?

[chadds]

Originally Posted by gregbackstrom

The QSC PA sounded much more even and hi-fi when I played CD's through it. That was my test. The bergs--which I love, BTW--sounded more nasal. They're certainly clear, powerful and well-built and sound great with most of my basses. Just not as much with the Sadowsky soapbars.

I'm looking for something reasonably light, so the Meyers won't work. Acme's may be the best choice. I'm just wondering what else is voiced like them.

Can you eq out the nasal?
What's between the Sadowski and the Berg?

[lomo]

Originally Posted by DONZI97

easy answer

fEARful

Agree. fEarful or LDS nEarful

[Joebone]

I'm on the same path as the OP. A Sadowsky Metro R5-24 with nickel rounds was my main axe until recently (I've popped for an NYC Sadowsky R5-24 with a P/J configuration, on which I'm using TI flats), and for a while I was using a pair of AE112, along with either a Mark Bass LMII or a Thunderfunk 750. I found myself wanting more thump, a more-extended but non-flabby bottom and what I thought of as more of a "hi-fi" sound, so it sounds like the OP seeks some of what I sought. Also note that I rarely play loud rock gigs, with most of my stuff being on a jazz-latin-folk continuum, where 1 1-12" often suffices.

Based on positive comments here on TB, and having dealt with Duke LeJeunne in the past, I decided to try the Audiokinesis Thunderchild 12, and am very, very happy. less efficient, but seems to handle a ridiculous amount of power before complaining, and with those Class D mini-amps, watts are cheap. Great coverage in a room, with a sweet high end, and the sort of low-end extension I sought. While more efficient, the AE112 had more of a upper-mid peak that was not doing it for me.

There certainly are other cabinets that could do the hi-fi thing - Acme cabinets have always had it(I've never used them, but have heard them often and they sound good) with low-range extension and articulate mids, but they are not at all efficient. The various fEARFUL designs look very interesting. I like the Aguilar GS112 as a lower-cost alternative that has some of these characteristics - the GS112 is a great cabinet, and often available used. And yes, if you have a ton of change, Meyer Sound stuff is great - never heard Anthony Jackson live, but I understand that's what he uses, and I've played through Meyer installations (as a trombonist, a long time ago) in mid-sized spaces, and they sounded GREAT!

One last thing - you might want to consider whether the Sadowsky 24 with soaps is really giving you what you want. As much as I loved mine -- and still do for certain things on the soloistic side -- I concluded that I needed a different electronics package...but that's me, and may not be the case for you.

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by gregbackstrom

Acme's may be the best choice. I'm just wondering what else is voiced like them.

• Acme B112 series
• fEarful/nEarful
• BFM
• Audiokinesis Thunder series
• Barefaced "Big" series
• Bergantino HT series
• Bergantino IP series

MM

[Derek Kiernan]

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

I would consider the wide variety of 2 and 3 way speakers that are now available. Of course, I'm happy to tell you that fEARfuls do what you're asking quite astoundingly, but you could also check out Barefaced, BFM designs, the Avatar TB153, the new Acme offerings, etc.

To the OP - I'd suggest fEARful, AudioKinesis (wait for the 15 if you're convinced of volume needs over a single 12 after doing research), barefaced, and the new line coming out from R Baer Amplification. These are all higher end executions than the Avatar (which is a lot of bang for the buck!).

[DukeLeJeune]

Originally Posted by gregbackstrom

On a whim, I ran the bass through an Aggie DB680 into a set of powered QSC PA speakers w/ powered sub. Wow - THAT'S my sound.

One of the things the QSC mains do very well is radiation pattern control; that is, their off-axis response is fairly close to their on-axis response (albeit reduced in level). This contributes to good sound throughout the venue.

Originally Posted by gregbackstrom

But I don't want to carry that much gear around, so I'm wondering what speakers are available that are really flat from 20Hz to 20kHz (give or take). I know Acme Low B2's are fairly flat. Are there others? I'm trying to produce the SPL of a loud 410 cabinet.

Loud, very deep bass is an extremely expensive (and heavy) commodity. Main speaker + high-power sub is the most lighweight way to get there, which is why PA systems are configured that way. Practical bass cabs won't begin to get there, though the Acmes and fEarfuls probably come the closest.

[greenboy]

A PA stack that can actually do a lot of LF content in a compact space requires a lot more power amp and active crossover, and very expensive drivers.

A PA stack that can do it with moderate power amplification requires a lot more space to compensate.

Here comes that Hoffman and his Iron Law again.

For bass rig use there's a fair amount of wasted bulk and weight since typically there will be both a subwoofer and a top cab/main with a midbass/woofer, and the two could be replaced with one well-chosen driver, dispensing with a lot of pack space and not requiring so much amplification.

That generally doesn't work so well for FOH systems though, with their needs to locate mains often quite a distance from subwoofers.

And this is just with an f3 at 40 or 50 hz. it gets worse if you shoot for f3 at 30 hz.