Higher end Gk tone?

tubaman2 · #1 02-02-2011, 07:19 AM

Hello all. I've been looking for a new amp recently to replace my Gk Backline 600. I've got a few amps I'm thinking about.

Basically my predicament is that the tone of the Backline isn't harsh enough. It's too smooth. My guitarist even went as far as calling it too "velvet". I was looking at the orange terror bass and that's more towards what I want to sound like. The problem is that you don't find many used, and even then they're still a little above my price range.

I was wondering if you can get a harsher tone out of the higher end Gks. I've found a few used 1001rbs in my price range. Would it be worth it to try to find a used mb fusion to get a more gnarly tone?

I lightly use a fuzz to try to get more of that kind of tone, but it isn't quite the same as having a more gnarly tone coming straight from the amp.

(Could my bass having barts have more to do with this than I think? I've heard they get a really smooth tone. I'm willing to replace pickups if that will be a better remedy.)

ManInPeril · #2 02-02-2011, 07:23 AM

My experiences with the 1001RB have been fantastic... but actually, I would urge you to get the 700RB MkII instead. They're both great amps, but the 700RB's lower wattage is easier to push and get the harsh tone I think you're describing.

Something that helps a ton with my dirty tone is my compression pedal. I use a Trace Elliot SMX Dual-Band, where I boost my lows and compress all of my highs/mids. It makes them sharper and "cutty".

Hope this helps.

The Thinker · #3 02-02-2011, 07:27 AM

I have not played through that amp, but have read on this forum that it's much like the GK 400rb, which can get pretty aggressive. So it might not be the amp. Are you setting the gain high relative to the master volume? That will get you more grunt. If your master is much higher than your gain, you'll get a cleaner sound. Check this first before giving up on the amp.

I have, on the other hand, played basses with Bart pickups. I strongly suspect those are contributing to the "velvety" tone you have. For aggressive passive pickups, consider Basslines Quarter Pounders or the DiMarzios (model J or Model P). For aggressive actives, I'd suggest EMGs.

allexcosta · #4 02-02-2011, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Thinker

I have, on the other hand, played basses with Bart pickups. I strongly suspect those are contributing to the "velvety" tone you have.

Exactly...

tubaman2 · #5 02-02-2011, 07:34 AM

The backline doesn't really have a "gain" control. The closest thing it has is an overdrive channel that just sounds awful. Even with the gain low on that channel it just makes the amp sound really bad.

Ric5 · #6 02-02-2011, 07:34 AM

Get a good pedal board and then you have your tone no matter what amp you use.

http://www.3dentourage.com/425/effects.htm

Ric5 · #7 02-02-2011, 07:35 AM

The GK amp was designed to be clean sounding.

tubaman2 · #8 02-02-2011, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allexcosta

Exactly...

Would replacing the pickups fix the problem more than a new amp though?

The Thinker · #9 02-02-2011, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubaman2

The backline doesn't really have a "gain" control. The closest thing it has is an overdrive channel that just sounds awful. Even with the gain low on that channel it just makes the amp sound really bad.

I see. Maybe the amp after all then.

rolorockbass · #10 02-02-2011, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManInPeril

My experiences with the 1001RB have been fantastic... but actually, I would urge you to get the 700RB MkII instead. They're both great amps, but the 700RB's lower wattage is easier to push and get the harsh tone I think you're describing.

Something that helps a ton with my dirty tone is my compression pedal. I use a Trace Elliot SMX Dual-Band, where I boost my lows and compress all of my highs/mids. It makes them sharper and "cutty".

Hope this helps.

I have to second this and you would save some cash. I play rock and get a great aggressive tone fingerstyle or pick through the 700rb

ljazz · #11 02-03-2011, 03:32 AM

The bl600 can get as grunty and growly as the 700rbII, but at much lower volumes. My guess is the the problem is not the head....... and you'll still have a problem if you switch to something else.

Make sure you keep the master up over 12:00 and the boost over 12:00. The last time I played through one, I had the master up to 2:00 and boost at 3:00 and it had the gk growl going in spades. GKnarly!

Also, try dumping the fuzz, and going to a Tech 21 VT.

I think the BL600 is a pretty killer little head. I like it's tone even more than the mb500.

craig.p · #12 02-03-2011, 05:33 AM

Yeah, I love my BL600, too, but I think I know what the OP's guitar player means. There's that tiny bit of compression+smoothness+veiling you get from the preamp section. For me it's a huge asset, but I can see how it wouldn't be -- if you want a sharper, more-defined sound. If that's where I wanted to go, I'd replace the BL with something that has a clinical tone by default, i.e. at "flat." The Carvins come first to my mind, but there are lots of others that'll do the same thing. The Carvin BX boxes can definitely do "harsh."

PSPookie · #13 02-03-2011, 05:39 AM

The 700RB-II sounds like a good option for you. I find that mine gets pretty "grunty" at reasonable volumes.

Marton · #14 02-03-2011, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSPookie

The 700RB-II sounds like a good option for you. I find that mine gets pretty "grunty" at reasonable volumes.

+1

ljazz · #15 02-04-2011, 04:06 AM

With the exception of the string filter and presence, the pre's sound the same. And really, the BL600, because of it's lower output, will out grunt the 700rbII. If the issue is the sound of the 600, then he'll have the same problem with a 700rbII. 9 times out of 10, when someone has a problem with a GK's tone, it's because they haven't gain staged properly for their tonal goals.

I think the problem here is that either the gain staging he's using isn't "maximizing" the growl, something other than the head (pups, cabs, etc), or the GK tone just isn't for him. I'd start by tweaking on the cheapest solution.

ilovenofrets · #16 02-04-2011, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubaman2

The backline doesn't really have a "gain" control. The closest thing it has is an overdrive channel that just sounds awful. Even with the gain low on that channel it just makes the amp sound really bad.

'Level" is your gain control. There's one for your clean channel, and one for the overdrive channel. You'll get a bit more grunt by increasing it, but I can't recommend driving it too hard, as solid-state amps aren't really meant to have their preamps pushed like a tube amp. You do, however, also have that oh-so-lovely 'Boost' knob, whch will be your best friend in providing that sound you hear in your head(pun definitely intended-LOL).

tubaman2 · #17 02-05-2011, 09:10 AM

I think maybe the GK tone just isn't for me, because I've pushed that boost knob as high as I could and I still don't like the tone. I'm really interested in the Carvin heads now. Would it be worth it to save up for the orange, which I would really rather not do? Or would one of the the carvin heads achieve the kind of tone I'm looking for at the cheaper price? They also seem like they might be more versatile. Sometimes that means they won't get enough grunt for me, would a Carvin do that?

unclejane · #18 02-05-2011, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubaman2

I think maybe the GK tone just isn't for me, because I've pushed that boost knob as high as I could and I still don't like the tone.

Oh yeah, don't ever turn that knob up... it just makes a mess; I have no idea why GK put that circuitry in there.

But even clean, the GK voicing tends to be more trebly with a little bit of a pinch in the upper mids. So it's a spectacular amp for slapping or funk style playing in general. But if you're into more mellow tones (i.e. the Bunny Brunel type sound like I am), it'll do it but you have to really calm it down. I.e. on my 1001RBII I:
- turn the tweeter completely off
- treble completely off
- woofer hi cut enabled
- contour and presence completely off.

and I can _almost_ get a good smooth mellow Bunny Brunel/Jeff Berlin type sound with my Carvin BB bass. Even after all that, there's still that slight pinch in the sound that's characteristic of the GK voicing. If I plug my G&L into it, forget it. It's back to full Fender funk sound again...

Don't get me wrong, there's no better amp on the market for dragging the entire police dept. to your house or gig than the RB series, especially the 1001RBII which I have. But it does have a definite characteristic voicing to it that tends towards hard rock and funk style sounds.

If you want to go mellow, it's probably not quite the right amp.

LS

tubaman2 · #19 02-05-2011, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclejane

Oh yeah, don't ever turn that knob up... it just makes a mess; I have no idea why GK put that circuitry in there.

But even clean, the GK voicing tends to be more trebly with a little bit of a pinch in the upper mids. So it's a spectacular amp for slapping or funk style playing in general. But if you're into more mellow tones (i.e. the Bunny Brunel type sound like I am), it'll do it but you have to really calm it down. I.e. on my 1001RBII I:
- turn the tweeter completely off
- treble completely off
- woofer hi cut enabled
- contour and presence completely off.

and I can _almost_ get a good smooth mellow Bunny Brunel/Jeff Berlin type sound with my Carvin BB bass. Even after all that, there's still that slight pinch in the sound that's characteristic of the GK voicing. If I plug my G&L into it, forget it. It's back to full Fender funk sound again...

Don't get me wrong, there's no better amp on the market for dragging the entire police dept. to your house or gig than the RB series, especially the 1001RBII which I have. But it does have a definite characteristic voicing to it that tends towards hard rock and funk style sounds.

If you want to go mellow, it's probably not quite the right amp.

LS

Well my problem is that the GK is too smooth. Do you have any recommendations for amps that get a harsher tone?

unclejane · #20 02-05-2011, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubaman2

Well my problem is that the GK is too smooth. Do you have any recommendations for amps that get a harsher tone?

I don't think I've ever heard an amp that can get harsher than the GK, so the GK is still my recommendation there. If you're talking about a more distorted sound that's easy to achieve by simply cranking up the Volume knob until it overdrives the Woofer section. Add in varying amounts of Boost to that to add a softer kind of distortion (the so called "valve" distortion the Boost is supposed to give) and you should have all the grind and fuzz you could ever possibly want.....

Apart from that, you're probably better off with tone shaping from outboard effects like EQ and overdrive etc., and just running the amp clean...

LS