How can 250w cut the mustard in a gig situation?

[MontanaBassDude]

Moderator - I'm seriously not trolling here. I honestly don't get this; in fact, I'm hoping people may see the light and start to agree with me.

I sit here at night and read post after post of rock bassists proclaiming their love and awe for a 250W head over a 2x10 cab. I don't doubt their sincerity and awe, but I don't get it.
(I'm talking about gigs where no bass signal is fed into the PA)

My 1500w head at 4 ohms into two 15" cabs goes with me to EVERY gig, indoors and out. Those two 3015LFs are pumping LOTS of air. Outdoor gigs, it's not nearly enough!
[IMG][/IMG]
My bass signal is kept OUT of our PA; it's for keys, guitars, vocals, drums.

I often go listen to other rock bands with 200-500w bass rigs, and in my pathetic opinion, that nice, pulsing bass just isn't there, out in the room! I'm always stunned how anemic so many bands sound. Those low frequencies get absorbed by carpeting and curtains and bodies. It sounds wimpy, unimpressive, and really ho-hum.

Someday, recruit another bassist to stand in for you for one song, go out into the crowd, to the back and listen as your bass frequencies get sucked into oblivion.

I guess the general theme of my post is "If you're gonna play bass, go bigger, or go home". Because IMHO, the bass is supposed to be the most powerful element of R&R.

It's Acoustics 101 - Hey, I'm not looking for a fight, just tell me if you agree with me so I don't think I'm the lone nut job out there!

peace, brothers.

[millsbass5]

Why don't you run thru the board? Let the P.A. do the work. Especially if your band has a good P.A.

[Session1969]

Yeah, but 1500 digital watts is just like 250 solid state watts. What's the difference ?

[blendermassacre]

Originally Posted by Session1969

Yeah, but 1500 digital watts is just like 250 solid state watts. What's the difference ?

Please tell me this is in sarcasm....

[Session1969]

Just kidding.

[Rooster009]

Truthfully, I see no reason that you should be left out of the PA. That's just my opinion. If its a situation where your other band members are concerned about bass frequencies blowing the PA speakers then they are full of it. Especially if your PA has subs. IMO

[blendermassacre]

Originally Posted by Session1969

Just kidding.

Thank God

[two fingers]

Anyone who fills a room with a 2-10 is playing a (comparatively) quiet gig. I'm not saying it can't be done. It just can't be done with any volume. I'm just saying that a 2-10 won't get it done in a loud band with no PA. That being said, the watts have little to nothing to do with it. I run an Ampeg V4 (100W) head with an 8-10 and I can cover most small to medium sized clubs with no PA. Speaker surface area, cabinet tuning, speaker efficiency, and the overall physics of the room and the speaker cab have a lot more to do with any ability to fill a room from the stage than watts. Watts are way down on the list.

I can fill most stages (not the room) with the V4 and a 4-10. I can fill small rooms and pretty much any stage with my Mesa Walkabout Scout 15" combo and matching extension cab. That head runs at 375W I think. But, again, I'm running 4 10s, or 2 (really well-tuned) 15" cabs with those rigs.

Either way. You have to understand basic physics (which I don't) to explain it, but it's sound bouncing around (either inside the cab, or out in the room, or off of the face of speakers) that gets a room, or even the air outside filled with bass.

[Duckwater]

I have to use a 100w combo with a 10 inch speaker to fill out every gig I play and I'm usually louder than everyone else in my band (singer, drums, 2(sometimes 3) fuzzed out guitars, and keys when we have room. I've gotten used to having a less bassy sound.

[Vince Klortho]

I can't say I fully agree. I have played tons of gigs with a single 4x10 cabinet and a 200W amp and the room was pretty well filled. Many of them were not exlusively rock though - there was some jazz, swing, blues, and funk in there too and we often had six or seven guys on stage. We were also not a really loud band either.

I guess I would say it depends on what kind of music you play, how loud your band is, what the room is like, and how many people there are. Too many variables to make a blanket statement.

[Session1969]

Originally Posted by Rooster009

Truthfully, I see no reason that you should be left out of the PA. That's just my opinion. If its a situation where your other band members are concerned about bass frequencies blowing the PA speakers then they are full of it. Especially if your PA has subs. IMO

+1, For me, it's also because stage volume can be affected and make my singers strain. Not to say I wouldn't want a rig like the O.P's, but from past experiences , I'd have it at a lower volume and use the F.O.H. anyways. Badass Rig, btw !

[MontanaBassDude]

Originally Posted by millsbass5

Why don't you run thru the board? Let the P.A. do the work. Especially if your band has a good P.A.

On outdoor gigs, yes, my bass signal is leaked into the PA as needed.

We've got a pretty decent PA - Mackie HD1531 over HD1501 subs.

But my rig into a PA isn't the point of my thread; how a 250W 2x10 rig can be enough for so many people, that's what puzzles me.

[Stumbo]

Your band is too loud. Especially if you have to carry 1500 watts and 2x15 stack to keep up.
Seriously.


I'm just sayin'...

[Jim Carr]

To the OP: One bassist's loud is another's soft. I am with you—the bass needs clean heft and headroom. The PA (ours or the house) is not enough to do the job in most cases—unless outdoors. 800 watts @ 4 ohms into 410 or 610 or a 15/6/1 covers most of it. There's a smaller rig for upright or rehearsals.

[zachoff]

I saw Tom Hamilton play an arena w/ a fliptop, so yeah... It can be done if the PA support is right or the room is small.

[MontanaBassDude]

Originally Posted by Stumbo

Your band is too loud. Especially if you have to carry 1500 watts and 2x15 stack to keep up.
Seriously.


I'm just sayin'...

You're probably right.

On the other hand, in our 9 years as a band, winning 14 various band of the year awards in the city... continually being rehired for great gigs...
...I'm thinking we've got the perfect levels!

[bassbully]

I have used 250 thru 2x10 and 4x10 in many gigs indoors and out some with PA some without. Nobody want the bass in your face in bands I have been in I want to sit with the drums.

Today it's a 300 LMIII and Markbass 2x10 no problems again.

[MontanaBassDude]

Originally Posted by Jim Carr

One bassist's loud is another's soft. I am with you—the bass needs clean heft and headroom. The PA (ours or the house) is not enough to do the job in most cases—unless outdoors. 800 watts @ 4 ohms into 410 or 610 or a 15/6/1 covers most of it.

Whew!! Thank you! I'm not alone.
However, your band is obviously too loud, too!

[majortoby]

Well, I plan on getting a 200watter (GK MB200) and running it into either one 3015, or two Deltalite II 2512's. Although I won't be pumping out massive amounts of reggae dub bass, I assure you it will be all the bright, aggressive, cutting Jbass growl I need for now :-) That rig is F-ing sweet, btw!

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by MontanaBassDude

You're probably right.

On the other hand, in our 9 years as a band, winning 14 various band of the year awards in the city... continually being rehired for great gigs...
...I'm thinking we've got the perfect levels!

Your guitar player Art is the man. Use to watch him play in Soma back in the day. That being said I could play all my gigs with my Shuttle6.0/12t combo. I almost always DI into the PA except for really small gigs. A PA helps distribute the sound not just make it louder.