How can 250w cut the mustard in a gig situation?

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by MontanaBassDude

I guess I feel my obligation as a bassist is to be heard. If they can't hear bass, it's MY problem.

Why can't they hear the bass It can't be because the guitar player is too loud since he doesn't even use an amp. Sorry your just doing it caveman style. Of course if I had the 3rd best bass rig in the whole state of montana I guess I would turn up too.

[MontanaBassDude]

Originally Posted by ThirtyOver

Bass is supposed to be a foundation. If that foundation is ear piercingly loud. The guitars and drums will have to be louder to level off. There is no volume control in that set up and you will all be deaf by next christmas.

I appreciate that you've convicted me as being "piercingly loud" with no volume control - without even hearing our band live.
We go out into the audience every break and seek feedback about our levels. You -of course- won't believe me... but in our 8-9 years together, we have never, ever heard that the bass is too loud. Ever.
I do use in-ear monitors, so after our sound check, I have zero reason to boost my volume. Hence, from our first note to lights out, we haven't changed one dB. We don't have to "rein each other in."
We have raised one thing; our prices... and we still get rehired.
So, yes, I'm confident that I'm fulfilling my obligation of laying down the foundation beautifully.
Going back to the point of my thread, I can't see how those gigging with 250w 2x10 rigs are fulfilling their obligation for laying down a solid foundation.
You're right, people in a bar DO recognize "too loud." But they do NOT recognize "wimpy bass foundation." That's our job.

[MontanaBassDude]

..

[MontanaBassDude]

Originally Posted by modulusman

Why can't they hear the bass It can't be because the guitar player is too loud since he doesn't even use an amp. Sorry your just doing it caveman style. Of course if I had the 3rd best bass rig in the whole state of montana I guess I would turn up too.

MM, you've taken my response out of context. That's what the other guy was saying. Wow, never mind, I can't even keep up with your flurry of condescending comments here.

But you'll really be able to eye-roll this one -- There are three fEARful rigs in the state at last count... and I have one of them. Greenboy's is #1... so I'll say I have the second best rig in Montana! Har...

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by MontanaBassDude

I appreciate that you've convicted me as being "piercingly loud" with no volume control - without even hearing our band live.
We go out into the audience every break and seek feedback about our levels. You -of course- won't believe me... but in our 8-9 years together, we have never, ever heard that the bass is too loud. Ever.
I do use in-ear monitors, so after our sound check, I have zero reason to boost my volume. Hence, from our first note to lights out, we haven't changed one dB. We don't have to "rein each other in."
We have raised one thing; our prices... and we still get rehired.
So, yes, I'm confident that I'm fulfilling my obligation of laying down the foundation beautifully.
Going back to the point of my thread, I can't see how those gigging with 250w 2x10 rigs are fulfilling their obligation for laying down a solid foundation.
You're right, people in a bar DO recognize "too loud." But they do NOT recognize "wimpy bass foundation." That's our job.

Well there is still 332 days left this year and you have 331 of them still open according to your website.

[modulusman]

I really don't think a carvin head puts you in the top 3. One of the best local players has an Eden WT800 with two 410xlt cabinets that would kill your rig. My Genz rig doesn't suck either.

[ThirtyOver]

[quote=MontanaBassDude;13820312]
Going back to the point of my thread, I can't see how those gigging with 250w 2x10 rigs are fulfilling their obligation for laying down a solid foundation.

sorry.....but unless you've never seen a band outside this makes absolutely no sense. Last band I seen outside was at a 4th of July event here where I live, the bassist had a 200 watt Acoustic combo amp and you could here him loud and clear all the way up and down the entire Fairground. Had he been in one of the bars he would of been shaking the tables. Not trying to be rude here. But it shows a raving misunderstanding of equipment. Volume wise there is little difference between a 200 watt amp and a 400 watt amp. The 400 just gets there a little quicker. And might be EQ'd differently or of better quality along with the cab pairing and yield better results because of that alone. Your hatred for anything less than overkill sized equipment doesn't even mention that fact. You can take 2 200 watt amps with entirely different Pre amps and two separate basses and get entirely different results. I have seen plenty of bands on stage with small combos fill a room nicely. Id put a small watt Ampeg or say a Walkabout against many amps that are actually higher wattage's. If you are EQ'd properly there's no reason that you shouldn't be able to cut through. If you want so much equipment that you can shake the feathers off of birds flying above you than that's a personal choice. But bands have been using small wattage amps to do shows since long before someone came up with the idea of putting that much power into an amp. If you are having results with your equipment...kudos.

To be honest with a good PA you dont even need amps.

[Downunderwonder]

Originally Posted by MontanaBassDude

I guess I feel my obligation as a bassist is to be heard. If they can't hear bass, it's MY problem.

At some point "everything louder than everything else" gets to be a nonsense. I draw the line at 2x15 pre neo. I have 250 completely clean rms and 500 startlingly clean peak watts, capable of giving said 4 ohm cab a full workout. If you need more bass monitoring than 2 E140 going hard you're probably looking for a pointy bass bassist.

[kjpollo]

I cut to the last page of the thread so I could comment about my gigging rig but since this turned into the All -Montana Great Amp Rig fight, I'm going to make my comment, grab a beer and some pretzels and see how the dust settles.

My main setup is an Ampeg B5R into an SWR 410 (220w @ 8 ohms). When we play really big rooms or outdoor shows, I'll double up the cabs and use my Kustom Groove that'll put out 750 watts at 4 ohms.

Obviously not NEARLY enough power to slay herds of buffalo like they do in Montana but hopefully it'll suffice.

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by kjpollo

I cut to the last page of the thread so I could comment about my gigging rig but since this turned into the All -Montana Great Amp Rig fight, I'm going to make my comment, grab a beer and some pretzels and see how the dust settles.

My main setup is an Ampeg B5R into an SWR 410 (220w @ 8 ohms). When we play really big rooms or outdoor shows, I'll double up the cabs and use my Kustom Groove that'll put out 750 watts at 4 ohms.

Obviously not NEARLY enough power to slay herds of buffalo like they do in Montana but hopefully it'll suffice.

Yeah I just ran the SPL numbers and since Montanabassdudes all about being loud my Genz stack wins compared to his fearfuls. So maybe I should now be # 1 in the state. BTW I drive by a herd of buffalo that belong to Ted Turner on my way to work.

[ThirtyOver]

Originally Posted by kjpollo

Obviously not NEARLY enough power to slay herds of buffalo like they do in Montana but hopefully it'll suffice.

[two fingers]

The thinner air in Montana must make a gigawatt amp a requirement up there. Here in NC, my 100W V4 will take your face off with the right cab. Seriously, there are faceless people all over NC who dared walk in front of it.

[kurosawa]

Originally Posted by Primakurtz

To answer the OP's topic title: it's all about the speakers.
Two or three hundred watts can get very loud through a pair of 15" Faital speakers, IME.
Very, very loud - "turn down, you are drowning out the psycho double kick drummer and the guitards" loud.

I was just paging through wondering how long it would take for someone to say that. Yours was the 120th reply.

Yeah, the formula 200w into a 2x15 has kept up with drummers since they came up with the configuration, because whatever else has changed in music, drummers don't hit any harder now than they did back then.

[Sid Fang]

Originally Posted by kurosawa

I was just paging through wondering how long it would take for someone to say that. Yours was the 120th reply.

Oh, c'mon. I hit it in post 99!

[JimmyM]

One question I always have for people who crank crazy loud rigs crazy loud is how do you hear your vocals? You must have some serious monitor rigs to pull that off. And you must be half deaf and have a real rough sounding voice. Don't get me wrong...not against big rigs...they always sound better to me even when run quietly. But no way I'd want to sing on a gig where everything's crazy loud onstage. Glad I play in bands with grown-ups

BTW, the phrase is actually "cut the muster." Over the years, it got misunderstood by folks and evolved into "cut the mustard," but it's "muster." It's funnier to say "mustard," though.

[Downunderwonder]

I prefer ketchup on most things.

[modulusman]

It is kind of funny that the OP is bragging on his fearful bass rig. meanwhile his band has a PA that is basically the same components. Each has a 15in. sub and a 15/6 top except the mackie has a horn and built in Power and DSP. I wonder how much different they would sound side by side.

[Stumbo]

I'd be curious as to what a db meter would show out front at one of your bigger gigs?

[bmc]

One thing I have learned since I started gigging (40 years ago this year), is that a band soundsand better when the stage volume is quiet. Same goes for rehearsal. Mistakes are far more evident at a quiet level than when everyone is playing loud. Knowing that, there is a magic that happens when everyone is quieter. They tend to focus more on the music, their parts, being tasteful and appropriate to the song. Try it at rehearsal some time.

There is never a need for high stage volume or loud rehearsal volume. Unless, the musicians have insecurities. I was once asked to audition for a band here in town. I knew the singer quite well. She has song at Montreux Jazz festival a few times. Anyhow, I was asking about the band, where they rehearse, the players, set up, staging, work ethic, egos, etc. When she told me that the drummer fully mic'd his set for rehearsal, my interest started to really wane.

[BassKitty101]

Strangely enough I heard a guy who tore the ass off of a venue in Portland last Saturday. It was just a 410 and a MB200 with some PA reinforcement. (shocking I know)
I'd say your sound depends a lot more on working together with your band and the sound guy than having a huge rig.
No professional (or audience member) is going to care which swinging dick has the biggest or lightest rig.

People come to shows to act belligerent and obnoxious and by golly I will give them the means to do so using any combination of my gear.