How can 250w cut the mustard in a gig situation?

[JimmyM]

Cranking a B-15 into the red is about as doom as I'm prepared to get these days.

[Downunderwonder]

Originally Posted by Sartori

However, I get really pissed off if the drummer of my folk/rock band plays so loud that I feel like using them.

Same feeling with funky jazz in lively cocktail bar. I just can't seem to get through to the guys that we are quite loud enough already already.

I learned the hard way smacking the bejesus out of cymbals 6ft from my ears with the bamboo sticks makes for tinnitus city for two days, never again. The Etymotics go in before we get going.

The bar never complains about the volume even with the conversation getting impossible within 30ft. I guess the draw from the street of the live action makes it worth the struggle to take orders in what is otherwise a very upmarket locale.

I'm direct into PA at that gig but my 2x10 would be up to job with the Trace on 2. Earplugs forever.

My, isn't this now the oldies telling the young'ns how to save themselves untold grief and make money doing it!

[dStar]

Originally Posted by CL400Peavey

The only thing we run through the PA is vocals.

Why?

[Downunderwonder]

Why? He's got a bass cab that covers the rooms he's playing and presumably it's small enough the drums aren't buried and his guitarists aren't using no silly 4x12 stacks.

But I doubt he arrived at the level of firepower he has without some stupid loud guitar action. I might suggest the whole thing gets downsized to single 12" for guitar monitors, but it would fall on deaf ears.

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

Why? He's got a bass cab that covers the rooms he's playing and presumably it's small enough the drums aren't buried and his guitarists aren't using no silly 4x12 stacks.

But I doubt he arrived at the level of firepower he has without some stupid loud guitar action. I might suggest the whole thing gets downsized to single 12" for guitar monitors, but it would fall on deaf ears.

Actually judging from the size of his bass rigs the guitar players probably need 4x12s to keep up.

[bmc]

Originally Posted by modulusman

Actually judging from the size of his bass rigs the guitar players probably need 4x12s to keep up.

It's impotant to always remember that being in a band is all about competing to sounder than each other.

I believe volume is a crutch for skill or ability.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by bmc

It's impotant to always remember that being in a band is all about competing to sounder than each other.

I believe volume is a crutch for skill or ability.

I wouldn't go that far with it. Seen some extremely loud bands with tons of ability. And there are many bands who would disappoint me greatly by being too quiet in concert. Saw one two weeks ago...Blue Oyster Cult. Used to see them blow my head off with good clean extreme loudness back in the old days. Two weeks ago they did the Wolf Den at Mohegan Sun Casino, and I had to strain to hear them. Color me greatly disappointed.

[Floyd Eye]

Uh, haven't actually read the whole thread, but knowing full well that a bunch of guys have said, "Yes, 250 watts is plenty", and discounting the possibility that you are talking about mic'ing the cab or running a DI to the PA, I'm going to go with no.

[ljazz]

I find that it's best to keep your stage volume right at about your rehearsal volume levels...... not always possible, but I think it really helps with keeping things tight. We let the PA do the heavier lifting, and on bigger stages, the monitors may need to do a bit more work. I'm getting away with gk 400rb (200watts) and a couple of gk neo112's. There are a few rooms around this small town that can be carried with it. Heck, I could actually get away with just one 112, and go into the PA all the time. If I need a bit more, I can pull out the 700rbII and run a 212/112, but that is rare anymore....... having a half way decent PA helps. Lately, my gear investments have been geared more towards our PA, because I think it makes the band sound better.... not just me.

[bassboysam]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I wouldn't go that far with it. Seen some extremely loud bands with tons of ability. And there are many bands who would disappoint me greatly by being too quiet in concert. Saw one two weeks ago...Blue Oyster Cult. Used to see them blow my head off with good clean extreme loudness back in the old days. Two weeks ago they did the Wolf Den at Mohegan Sun Casino, and I had to strain to hear them. Color me greatly disappointed.

Or the Cream reunion show a few years ago. one of the worst i have ever seen.

[bmc]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I wouldn't go that far with it. Seen some extremely loud bands with tons of ability. And there are many bands who would disappoint me greatly by being too quiet in concert. Saw one two weeks ago...Blue Oyster Cult. Used to see them blow my head off with good clean extreme loudness back in the old days. Two weeks ago they did the Wolf Den at Mohegan Sun Casino, and I had to strain to hear them. Color me greatly disappointed.

You are right. I take back my words. Too much on my mind this week.

[Matt Novosedlik]

Originally Posted by Floyd Eye

Uh, haven't actually read the whole thread, but knowing full well that a bunch of guys have said, "Yes, 250 watts is plenty", and discounting the possibility that you are talking about mic'ing the cab or running a DI to the PA, I'm going to go with no.

I use to do battle of bands in gymnasiums 16 years ago with a Fender BXR 100 and Jazz bass copy and kept up with a 300 watt guitarist drummer and singer no problem but i did loose sound quality with it cranked and with the 15", I just recently last few weeks up graded my 100 watt Yamaha bass amp to a (30 year old) 250 watt Yourkville bloc 250 and I know the power increase woud cover the spread as well but now with all the clip options the sound quality would not degrade on this 15" as bad as on my Fender or Yamaha, but a 2 10" cab would be ideal to maintain sound quality on top of the 15"

[Matt Novosedlik]

Originally Posted by Rooster009

Truthfully, I see no reason that you should be left out of the PA. That's just my opinion. If its a situation where your other band members are concerned about bass frequencies blowing the PA speakers then they are full of it. Especially if your PA has subs. IMO

Agreed PA's are the work horses and can cover the whole spred of frequencies from all band members! No reason a bassist should be excluded from the PA set up especially if its a quality rig!

[Floyd Eye]

Originally Posted by Matt Novosedlik

I use to do battle of bands in gymnasiums 16 years ago with a Fender BXR 100 and Jazz bass copy and kept up with a 300 watt guitarist drummer and singer no problem but i did loose sound quality with it cranked and with the 15", I just recently last few weeks up graded my 100 watt Yamaha bass amp to a (30 year old) 250 watt Yourkville bloc 250 and I know the power increase woud cover the spread as well but now with all the clip options the sound quality would not degrade on this 15" as bad as on my Fender or Yamaha, but a 2 10" cab would be ideal to maintain sound quality on top of the 15"

First of all, if it were me, I would not mix cabs that way. Either get a matching 15" cab or just get a 410.

As to the original topic, and this is my own opinion based on my own experience, 250 SS watts are just not gonna cut it without PA support. Of course, I am in a hard rock outfit with a large drum kit and a 120 watt tube half stack to contend with. We mic everything and I run DI to the FOH. And I am using 1000 watt SS amp and an Ampeg 810.

[Matt Novosedlik]

Originally Posted by Floyd Eye

First of all, if it were me, I would not mix cabs that way. Either get a matching 15" cab or just get a 410.

As to the original topic, and this is my own opinion based on my own experience, 250 SS watts are just not gonna cut it without PA support. Of course, I am in a hard rock outfit with a large drum kit and a 120 watt tube half stack to contend with. We mic everything and I run DI to the FOH. And I am using 1000 watt SS amp and an Ampeg 810.

Sorry I meant with 250 to 300 watts 1 15' and a 2 -10' cab I have tried in the past and heard in the past seems to give the punch and rumble combination that is prime for the 300 person in door venues, but for out door this can vary you may need a PA depending on the acreage your playing and back to indoor gigs carpet does affect the sound flow and how far the carpet stretches..

[Matt Novosedlik]

Who out there thinks that casters on cabs and combos affects the sound and tone flow?? Also if you have an amp with a floor stand straight or angled how do you all feel this would affect your amps performance/ sound projection????

[Sid Fang]

Originally Posted by Floyd Eye

...
As to the original topic, and this is my own opinion based on my own experience, 250 SS watts are just not gonna cut it without PA support.

As has been pointed out already on this thread by several of us who've been there and done that, at 250-300W, it's far more a question of cabinet selection and placement than of wattage per se.

[Sid Fang]

Originally Posted by Matt Novosedlik

Who out there thinks that casters on cabs and combos affects the sound and tone flow?? Also if you have an amp with a floor stand straight or angled how do you all feel this would affect your amps performance/ sound projection????

Casters have zero effect on tone - as long as they're not actually rattling. They do reduce the coupling between an amp/cabinet and the floor, which can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on the floor and the music.

Floor stands also have some effect on floor coupling, depending on the area in contact with the floor. They are an absolute blessing for performance on small stages with small rigs. It's not that they change the tone of the amp, it's that they get more sound up to where you can hear yourself better on stage.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Matt Novosedlik

Who out there thinks that casters on cabs and combos affects the sound and tone flow?? Also if you have an amp with a floor stand straight or angled how do you all feel this would affect your amps performance/ sound projection????

First off, you have to raise a cab approx. 24-30 inches to lose floor coupling. Second, it's not that you hear fewer lows with your cab tilted or raised...you hear more highs and mids and you hear it as the audience hears it rather than all the highs and mids blowing past your knees. There is no downside to it IMHO.

[Matt Novosedlik]

Originally Posted by Sid Fang

Casters have zero effect on tone - as long as they're not actually rattling. They do reduce the coupling between an amp/cabinet and the floor, which can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on the floor and the music.

Floor stands also have some effect on floor coupling, depending on the area in contact with the floor. They are an absolute blessing for performance on small stages with small rigs. It's not that they change the tone of the amp, it's that they get more sound up to where you can hear yourself better on stage.

Yeah i worded that wrong didnt really mean to throw tone in there, but just meant sound travel as in the height change in the cabinet cool thanks for your input!