How can Avatar sell their Neo 410 so cheap?

Damani311 · #1 11-06-2012, 06:51 AM

It claims to have celestion speakers, and avatar is a good company.

But you can get them on ebay for around $350, brand new, factory direct, free shipping....? how?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/B410-AVATAR-...item2324dc258c

I know there are no bids, but the last listing of this item from 5 days ago sold for $296, plus $55 shipping....

**CL400Peavey** · #2 11-06-2012, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damani311

It claims to have celestion speakers, and avatar is a good company.

But you can get them on ebay for around $350, brand new, factory direct, free shipping....? how?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/B410-AVATAR-...item2324dc258c

I know there are no bids, but the last listing of this item from 5 days ago sold for $296, plus $55 shipping....

1.) That may be old stock they are trying to get out of stock.
2.) They build with 3/4" plywood and re-use cabinet sizes to reduce labor cost
3.) They buy drivers at a higher quantity than most can afford to. ie they buy lots of 200 drivers at a time, bulk discount.

Damani311 · #3 11-06-2012, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CL400Peavey

1.) That may be old stock they are trying to get out of stock.
2.) They build with 3/4" plywood and re-use cabinet sizes to reduce labor cost
3.) They buy drivers at a higher quantity than most can afford to. ie they buy lots of 200 drivers at a time, bulk discount.

what are they normally built with?

and what do you mean by reuse the size? You mean they just make a bunch of cabinets with the same size, or reuse old cabinet shells?

thanks

**CL400Peavey** · #4 11-06-2012, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damani311

what are they normally built with?

and what do you mean by reuse the size? You mean they just make a bunch of cabinets with the same size, or reuse old cabinet shells?

thanks

They use 3/4" ply on all their builds, with out bracing. So there is less labor involved in the builds. They also start with a few standardized cabinet sizes and change up the baffles depending on the cab they are building. They make their existing cabs work ok around the drivers they want to use, not design the cabs around those same drivers. This cuts down on their R&D a bit.

craig.p · #5 11-06-2012, 07:12 AM

Those Celestions may or may not be what you're looking for. It will depend on several factors such as music style, tone requirements, and max loudness requirements. Might want to find out exactly what Celestion model/part number drivers are being used in that cab, then see if you can get the specs from the manufacturer's web site. Based on what I know about Celestion neos, my guess is that the cab will have --among other things -- a sort of in-your-face tone, highly-defined, with the mids that the Eminence neos lack, but capable of only moderate volume in the bass region. However, if Avatar has contracted Celestion to build OEM drivers that are way off spec from their commercially available drivers, then you can forget all that because it's going to be no more than a guessing game.

MichaelVee · #6 11-06-2012, 07:39 AM

To the OP: Visit the Avatar 410 page. The cheapest configuration is currently $489, with $55 shipping.

I agree with the thought that the eBay cabs are probably not the same as the current models you'd order from Avatar directly. Dave frequently sells discontinued cabs, blems, and experimental cabs on eBay.

For direct to consumer online retailers, Carvin has Avatar beat, at the moment, with a sale price of $359 for their BR410 model, with shipping of $49.

Itzayana · #7 11-06-2012, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelVee

To the OP: Visit the Avatar 410 page and see the actual prices they charge for the cabs. The cheapest configuration is currently $489, with $55 shipping.

That's right. The ones on ebay are seconds and blems.
IMO even at $489 + $55 shipping they are a great value.

I love my Avatar 4X10 neo.
I ordered with tolex and fabric grill so it was close to $700 delivered.

**bassdude51** · #8 11-06-2012, 08:01 AM

With the eBay link that you provided, I'm seeing 6 days of bidding left with a current price of $292 + $55 for shipping. To find out the reality price of the 4-10 neo bass cab, wait and see what it sells for 6 days from now!

Where are you getting a price of $350 and free shipping?

Avatar makes very nice cabs for the money. Dave is a very good man and customer service is excellent.

Syco_bass · #9 11-06-2012, 08:13 AM

It's simple really, they lose a little bit of money on every cabinet, but they make it up in volume......... LOL

In all seriousness, they are probably factory seconds, blems, NOS (new old stock) specially purchased discontinued drivers, that they got a smoking deal on, etc. NAMM is just around the corner and they probably will have new inventory to show. So, even if they move this older inventory at cost, it's better than sitting idle in some warehouse.

I think Avatar makes great stuff. Especially for the money. I've never heard those Celestion NEO drivers, but I bet they are pretty good, especially for the money. Celestion greenbacks were some of my favs back in the day.

If I didn't build my own cabs, I'd try one. Sounds like a great deal. Good luck.

Handyman · #10 11-06-2012, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelVee

For direct to consumer online retailers, Carvin has Avatar beat, at the moment, with a sale price of $359 for their BR410 model, with shipping of $49.

I'd be careful with Carvin cabs these days. A couple years ago they moved away from Eminence drivers, and are now loading their cabs with cheapo no name drivers from who knows where.

Carvin generally makes really good stuff, but their current drivers make me nervous.

Damani311 · #11 11-06-2012, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassdude51

With the eBay link that you provided, I'm seeing 6 days of bidding left with a current price of $292 + $55 for shipping. To find out the reality price of the 4-10 neo bass cab, wait and see what it sells for 6 days from now!

Where are you getting a price of $350 and free shipping?

Avatar makes very nice cabs for the money. Dave is a very good man and customer service is excellent.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/350627470803...84.m1497.l2649

Luke19Boarder · #12 11-06-2012, 08:45 AM

Also consider the cost they save in advertising (not sure I've ever seen any) and web design (functional, but very simple website)

lomo · #13 11-06-2012, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke19Boarder

Also consider the cost they save in advertising (not sure I've ever seen any) and web design (functional, but very simple website)

The biggest savings comes from the factory-direct model. No retail outlet cuts the price very heavily. Look at their TB 153-best deal out there IMHO, if you spec the 3015LF driver.

will33 · #14 11-06-2012, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handyman

I'd be careful with Carvin cabs these days. A couple years ago they moved away from Eminence drivers, and are now loading their cabs with cheapo no name drivers from who knows where.

Carvin generally makes really good stuff, but their current drivers make me nervous.

Carvin switched from Eminence to I think China Celestions. May or may not be alright depending on what model they're basing their OEM off of and what tweaks, if any, other than relabeling. I've seen a few models at celestions site that would do fine in PA use but only 1 or 2 I'd consider good 10" bass guitar drivers, and I haven't been able to figure out what they're using there.

As for Avatar, they really only make 2 boxes for bass cabs. The 210 and 112 are the same box and the 212, 410, 115, and TB153 are all the same box. They just put in different baffles cutout for the various speakers. You can save a lot of cost that way if you can come up with a compromise that sounds good with all those different drivers. Avatar never claimed to be topend, "boutique" stuff, they want to make decent sounding stuff people can afford and they do a good job of that, with the TB153 being a very good value considering it uses an absolutely premium woofer.

I would beware of a "celestion loaded" Avatar 10" though. It may be the TF1020 or whatever that model # is. That is a 10 they tried to use in a 15/10 2-way that was a failed design and were clearing out those drivers at bargain basement cost. That 10 by itself has very low mechanical handling and will run out of gas pretty quick running a fullrange bass signal. Might be a good cab running a 410 with a small amp, like 100watt tube amp, or SS 200 watts or less, IMO.

bobcruz · #15 11-06-2012, 09:52 AM

I love my Avatar neo 112s. Here are the details that keep the price low:
1. 3/4 inch ply with no internal bracing. The cabs vibrate slightly, enough so that I have to place some thin foam between the head and cabs.
2. Steel grill has sharp unfinished edges; many manufacturers use a rolled over edge for this kind of grill.
3. Tolex has a lapped seam rather than a butted seam.
4. High pass section of the two-way crossover is 12 dB per octave. 18 dB would be better.
They're good value for the money.

Handyman · #16 11-06-2012, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

I would beware of a "celestion loaded" Avatar 10" though. It may be the TF1020 or whatever that model # is. That is a 10 they tried to use in a 15/10 2-way that was a failed design and were clearing out those drivers at bargain basement cost. That 10 by itself has very low mechanical handling and will run out of gas pretty quick running a fullrange bass signal. Might be a good cab running a 410 with a small amp, like 100watt tube amp, or SS 200 watts or less, IMO.

I bet anyone interested in that cab on EBay could call up Avatar and find out exactly which drivers are in the thing. I know very little about the Celestion product line, myself.

will33 · #17 11-06-2012, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handyman

I bet anyone interested in that cab on EBay could call up Avatar and find out exactly which drivers are in the thing. I know very little about the Celestion product line, myself.

Good advise.^^

bobcruz · #18 11-06-2012, 10:38 AM

From the eBay link:

"You are bidding on a Brand New Avatar B410 Bass guitar speaker cabinet that is loaded with four Celestion BN10-300 NEO 10s and a Foster Compression horn tweeter."

It's the Celstion driver with 4 mm Xmax: http://celestion.com/product/45/bn10300x/

PlungerModerno · #19 11-06-2012, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lomo

The biggest savings comes from the factory-direct model. No retail outlet cuts the price very heavily. Look at their TB 153-best deal out there IMHO, if you spec the 3015LF driver.

WOW.

http://www.avatarspeakers.com/TB153.htm That's pretty great pricing if it comes close to fEARful 15/6/1 in performance and weight. Even if it weighs more and falls a bit short of the evenness or output it still looks like a serious cab!

OK, 63lbs or just under 29 kg. Not as light as most fEARful builds.

**CL400Peavey** · #20 11-06-2012, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlungerModerno

WOW.

http://www.avatarspeakers.com/TB153.htm That's pretty great pricing if it comes close to fEARful 15/6/1 in performance and weight. Even if it weighs more and falls a bit short of the evenness or output it still looks like a serious cab!

The problem is the 4 Ohm oem 3015lf they use doesnt have the same capabilities of the commercially available 8 Ohm 3015LF. It gives up a lot to come in at a 4 Ohm impedance.