How Can I Tell If I'm Pushing My Cab Too hard?

[Livewire]

Hey guys, new to the whole head and cab deal, been playing with a combo for a while. So I have a GK700RBII head with a avatar 210 cab at 8ohms and I broke it in at my bands rehearsal space yesterday. I had to volume at about 11 and the boost at 12 to be heard over two guitars, drums, and vocals. I know if I'm pushing the head too hard the clip light would go on, but for the cab would it just to start to distort? I noticed the speakers pulsating inside the chamber back and forth (which I'm assuming is normal operation). Any other clear way of knowing? Thanks a lot

[jordie65]

use your ears and you will be fine. if it starts to sound nasty or distorted turn down immediately! as long as you listen you will be fine

[4Mal]

Originally Posted by Livewire

Hey guys, new to the whole head and cab deal, been playing with a combo for a while. So I have a GK700RBII head with a avatar 210 cab at 8ohms and I broke it in at my bands rehearsal space yesterday. I had to volume at about 11 and the boost at 12 to be heard over two guitars, drums, and vocals.

You wearing ear plugz ? I'm making the wild guess that you aren't rehearsing on a full stage, in which case cary on ...

I know if I'm pushing the head too hard the clip light would go on, but for the cab would it just to start to distort?

The clip light is actually reading the input to the amp - it's there to tell you that you are providing too much signal to the front end of the amp -In which case you turn down the gain and turn up the master/woofer volume on that amp... the clip light is not reading clipping at the output. You might want to review the owners manual for that amp as it has a great description for how that amp sets up...

I noticed the speakers pulsating inside the chamber back and forth (which I'm assuming is normal operation).

Not normal at all - it's an indication that you are feeding it too much signal - my guess is that it's a combination of volume, too much contour and too much bass boost.

Any other clear way of knowing? Thanks a lot

If you are going to play at that volume - then get the ear plugs. and get your self some more cab's ... or learn how to replace drivers...

FWIW - volume <> tight. Excess volume tends to mask things that you might not really want the band to project. Stuff like vocals out of key, harmonies that aren't, guitars that are playing major chords over minor changes... all that wash of noise doesn't help you get tight... an instructor told me - "You can't actually play that lick until you can play it clean, slow and in time - and oh by the way = talent <> volume" it was actually pretty good advice.

In my 3 piece 'power trio' we rehearse at super low volume. the drummer uses and e-kit for rehearsal. We all sing and with 3 part harmonies - you simply have to hear the nuances and details. if not - those 3 parts might not sound so hot when you get them up to stage volume. If you can make it sound full and tight playing soft - it's going to sound good at volume. The inverse is not necessarily true... offa da soap box and I wish you the best.

[Livewire]

Originally Posted by 4Mal

If you are going to play at that volume - then get the ear plugs. and get your self some more cab's ... or learn how to replace drivers...

FWIW - volume <> tight. Excess volume tends to mask things that you might not really want the band to project. Stuff like vocals out of key, harmonies that aren't, guitars that are playing major chords over minor changes... all that wash of noise doesn't help you get tight... an instructor told me - "You can't actually play that lick until you can play it clean, slow and in time - and oh by the way = talent <> volume" it was actually pretty good advice.

In my 3 piece 'power trio' we rehearse at super low volume. the drummer uses and e-kit for rehearsal. We all sing and with 3 part harmonies - you simply have to hear the nuances and details. if not - those 3 parts might not sound so hot when you get them up to stage volume. If you can make it sound full and tight playing soft - it's going to sound good at volume. The inverse is not necessarily true... offa da soap box and I wish you the best.

Thanks for the wise words man, I'll lower it down, I don't want to ruin the cabinet. Btw, I have the -15db switch engaged, that doesn't really help the situation at all or compensate for putting the boost and volume knobs a little higher does it?

[Wes Whitmore]

I can usually smell the voicecoils getting hot. Speakers can bark, pop, or just sound really strained. Watch your EQ, and stay off the 5 string button. I try to avoid that by keeping the volume in check, or add another cab.

[Wes Whitmore]

The -15dB pad only effects the input stage. Its for a hot bass so you can pad it down, then set the gain structure correctly between the woofer(master) and volume (gain) knobs.

[georgestrings]

Seems like another example of asking too much of a 210, IMO...



- georgestrings

[Spinal Tapper]

Realistically, get a 15" or a 4x10 to match up with your current 2x10 for these band situations. A 2x10 is pretty much coffee-shop volume...not 2 guitarists w/ cranked up Marshall Stacks

You'll get more headroom, more volume, and it'll be easier on your amp and speakers

[MNAirHead]

if it makes non bass sounds.. it's almost too late.

[Livewire]

I have no way to transport a 410 or two cabinets right now. thats why i purchased the 210

[Bass_Pounder]

Originally Posted by Livewire

I have no way to transport a 410 or two cabinets right now. thats why i purchased the 210

Then you are either screwed, or your guitarists need to turn way down.

There is only so much a 2X10 can do, and you are trying to compete that small amount of speaker area against 2 guitarists. Technically, you lost before you ever even turned your amp on.

[bwoodman]

Originally Posted by Livewire

I have no way to transport a 410 or two cabinets right now. thats why i purchased the 210

You need at least another 210 cab. You can't fit 2 cabs in your car? I've been using a pair of 210 cabs for years mainly because they are so portable and easy to lift compared to a 410 or 115.

[Wes Whitmore]

2x10 should be fine for a monitor, just get closer to it...it probably won't provide enough output to fill the whole bar at a gig. A second 210 would help considerably.

You could get a second cab and get it to the rehearsal space and leave it, then tote the new avatar and 700RB from your house to researsal space. If you have gigs, and they have PA with Subs, then just bring the single 2x10. If you have gigs that doesn't have PA, then bring the second cab when you can, and the single 2x10 the rest of the time.

I find that the only time I need my 4x10 is during practice since we have PA at gigs. I still bring it, but I just use it to hold my beer higher so I don't have to lean over as far...

Wes

[Livewire]

Originally Posted by Bass_Pounder

Then you are either screwed, or your guitarists need to turn way down.

There is only so much a 2X10 can do, and you are trying to compete that small amount of speaker area against 2 guitarists. Technically, you lost before you ever even turned your amp on.

They're running combo amps, not stacks. They're using 70 watt tube combos.

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

if it makes non bass sounds.. it's almost too late.

I didn't notice any farting noises or anything bad coming out of the speaker, I'm just being cautious because I don't want to buy a new drivers or ruin the cabinet.

Originally Posted by bwoodman

You need at least another 210 cab. You can't fit 2 cabs in your car? I've been using a pair of 210 cabs for years mainly because they are so portable and easy to lift compared to a 410 or 115.

I can probably fit another 210 in my trunk but then there wouldn't be room for other band equipment.

I was considering getting another 210 but I'm looking to add more low end to my sound. The 210 is punchy as hell, I would like to add more bass to it. I was looking into a 212 or 115 but I'm not sure if those with the 210 will fit in my car and weight is always a factor. I was thinking of those new gallien krueger mb light cabinets but I'm not sure it'll pair well with my head, I'm pretty sure they're made for the fusion series head. How well would two 210 cabs handle low end or am I better off gettting a 212 or 115?

[bazzanderson]

you DEFINITELY need to add another cab. Like others have said, a 2X10" can only put out so much. If you could add a 2X12 you'd have a killer rig!

Originally Posted by Livewire

They're running combo amps, not stacks. They're using 70 watt tube combos.



I didn't notice any farting noises or anything bad coming out of the speaker, I'm just being cautious because I don't want to buy a new drivers or ruin the cabinet.



I can probably fit another 210 in my trunk but then there wouldn't be room for other band equipment.

I was considering getting another 210 but I'm looking to add more low end to my sound. The 210 is punchy as hell, I would like to add more bass to it. I was looking into a 212 or 115 but I'm not sure if those with the 210 will fit in my car and weight is always a factor. I was thinking of those new gallien krueger mb light cabinets but I'm not sure it'll pair well with my head, I'm pretty sure they're made for the fusion series head. How well would two 210 cabs handle low end or am I better off gettting a 212 or 115?

[Pilgrim]

Low volume practice is the way to go! Allows you to work without hearing protection and to hear the nuances of the music MUCH better!!

[Bass_Pounder]

Originally Posted by Livewire

They're running combo amps, not stacks. They're using 70 watt tube combos.

And how many speakers are in each of their combos ?

Even if each combo is only a 1X12, their combined speaker area beats yours - you lose. Anything more, your in a no-win situation unless they turn down to a reasonable level.

[Jerryr63]

I think you have to have a thick skin when you're a bass player. I used a Peavey FireBass head (475 watts @ 4 ohms) with a 4 ohm Eden 410XLT cab for about 12 years. Our lead guitar player had a Fender Twin.... the high power version (evil twin!!) and he could absolutely bury me without even trying. One night he was off in solo heaven while my ears were about to bleed when I remembered that he was using some custom made ear plugs.

I don't even try to keep up with that nonsense...... I play in the zone that gives me the best tone from my rig and that's it. If someone wants to play all by themselves I'll let them.

I sold that rig because I got tired of the weight and now I've got a small Eden ENX-260 (or WTX-260 now called WTX264) head which is 180 watts at 8 ohms and a single 8 ohm Ampeg SVT-15E cabinet...... rated for 200 watts.

I've always put my system through the PA so I don't think there is reason to carry anymore.

You'll be limited with a single 2x10 or 1x15 unless you have PA support....... in any even try and resist the temptation to run you setup to the point were the sound turns to crap. I prefer a clean tone that's down in the mix a little to something that is loud but loose and booming all over the place.

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by Livewire

They're running combo amps, not stacks. They're using 70 watt tube combos.

Dude, a 25watt guitar combo can get unbelievably loud...

IME, a 210 is not enough for most rock bands - and certainly not one that has either 2 guitars or guitar and keys...



- georgestrings

[Buster Brown]

Originally Posted by georgestrings

Dude, a 25watt guitar combo can get unbelievably loud...

IME, a 210 is not enough for most rock bands - and certainly not one that has either 2 guitars or guitar and keys...



- georgestrings

Yep....EXTREMELY so! My guitarists use a 50 Watt Marshall and a twin reverb (hell, don't know the wattage but it's LOUD as hell~!)....I play a SVT4Pro through either a 6X10 or a 8X10 and it works well. A single 2X10 would never cut it...

And please understand, it's always easier to turn down, but in a live situation, that's not always possible. Hell, I've seen bands (literally) drowned out by the crowd.....sad but true.....