How do other cab builders survive???? (fEARful content)

SactoBass · #1 10-19-2010, 10:31 PM

How do commercial cab builders manage to stay in business and sell their cabs to the masses when fEARful designed cabs exist?

I am not trying to be a smart arse, or slam any particular commercial cab. I am sincere in my post. And I have no affiliation with Greenboy (the designer of fEARful cabs) or any cab builder. In fact, Greenboy doesn't even know who I am. I'm just your typical "run of the mill" 54 year old bass player who, over the decades, has spent lots of money buying and selling bass gear, and although I have owned some pretty decent gear over the years, I have yet to find a bass cab (or cabs) that totally extinguishes my cab GAS.

So, I have spent hours and hours and hours reading all of the fEARful threads (I'm a civil engineer, so I like lots of info and data). Based on what I have read, I have come to the conclusion that the fEARful cab design employing an Eminence Kappalite 3015LF woofer and an 18Sound6ND410 6" mid-driver (padded 3db and crossed over at 800hz) will provide SUPERIOR frequency response compared to any commercial cab on the market. The difference is not slight. It is significant......jaw dropping, "HOLY CHIT" type significant. And freq response is not the only parameter involved. Other aspects, such as weight, dispersion of the higher freqs, max SPL without cone over-excursion, etc. far out perform commercial offerings. IMO, it's no contest.

I have come to the point where I ask myself, with such a high performing cab design that is available to anyone, how can the commercial companies sell cabs?....for more money!!! Is it because there is a plethora of bassists out there who don't read TalkBass, and/or who don't take the time to become familiar with the fEARful design? Do they buy into the slick marketing hype of commercial offerings? It seems to me that any bassist who would take the time (that's the key) to dig into the design details and performance parameters would come to the same conclusion as I have.....that the fEARful 15/6 design is at the "top of the heap" performance wise, cost wise, and weight wise.

There are many TB'ers who came to that realization long before I did, so I'm kinda late to the party. I'm just happy that I have finally become enlightened.

I am a bass player, not a wood worker. So it is comforting to know that folks like Don Oatman at Low Down Sound (and other builders) will build these types of cabs for a very reasonable cost (I have no affiliation with LDS or any other cab builder).

I do not own a fEARful cab.......YET! But that is going to change now that I have learned some things.

4-string · #2 10-19-2010, 10:42 PM

Interesting that you have seen the light without owning (or even hearing?) one.

As good as I am sure they are, they aren't necessarily for everyone.

And check out JimmyM's science thread.

Selta · #3 10-19-2010, 10:45 PM

Just because all of those factors are "better", doesn't mean it'll be pleasant to your ears.

M0ses · #4 10-19-2010, 10:47 PM

I think flat sounds great. And fEarful is as close as it gets in the cab world.

will33 · #5 10-19-2010, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SactoBass

Is it because there is a plethora of bassists out there who don't read TalkBass, and/or who don't take the time to become familiar with the fEARful design? Do they buy into the slick marketing hype of commercial offerings?

Yes.

DukeLeJeune · #6 10-19-2010, 10:54 PM

In addition to Don Oatman of Low Down Sound, Alex Claber of Barefaced offers a cab that is competitive with the fEarful 15/6 (and is probably a bit lighter in weight).

zachoff · #7 10-19-2010, 10:57 PM

...because people are lazy/impatient and don't want to build/wait for a cab & would rather go down to Guitar Center to quickly fulfill their human needs?

I'm in the "too lazy to build a cab" camp. Actually, if there were designs that didn't involve horns or crossovers and only involved wood, wires, and speakers I'd probably be down. I don't care about all that other crap.

SactoBass · #8 10-19-2010, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DukeLeJeune

In addition to Don Oatman of Low Down Sound, Alex Claber of Barefaced offers a cab that is competitive with the fEarful 15/6 (and is probably a bit lighter in weight).

Yes......the Big One. I have spent lots of time checking that cab out on his website. It is close bretheren to the fEarful design. Alex has many posts in the fEarful threads. That guy knows his stuff, and is right up there with Greenboy and Bill FM.

JimmyM · #9 10-19-2010, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M0ses

I think flat sounds great. And fEarful is as close as it gets in the cab world.

it's still not flat. no cab is. the drivers don't have flat response so there's no way a cab can have it.

having said that, even though i love love love my svt 810 and b-15 cabs, i'm getting a couple of duke's new 212 cabs. partially because i think they'll be great double duty bass/small pa cabs, and because duke's ideas for bass cabs are wonderful. i'm down with the scientific approach using neos and mid drivers AND the sound of vintage ampeg cabs.

SactoBass · #10 10-19-2010, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachoff

...because people are lazy/impatient and don't want to build/wait for a cab & would rather go down to Guitar Center to quickly fulfill their human needs?

I suppose there are some who fall into that category. I was in that category for over 30 years!

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachoff

I'm in the "too lazy to build a cab" camp. Actually, if there were designs that didn't involve horns or crossovers and only involved wood, wires, and speakers I'd probably be down. I don't care about all that other crap.

LOL! I like simplicity too. But with the 3015LF (which provides better low end freq response than the "usual" woofer), you need the mid-driver at about 800hz and up. Simpler designs just won't get you there.

will33 · #11 10-19-2010, 11:12 PM

These designs are technically, on paper, the best design to hear the full, loud, amplified range of your electric bass but there's also a lot of people who don't want to hear all that. If there was one best thing, we would all have that one thing and there would be no other option, that's not good.....

Jefenator · #12 10-19-2010, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Salamon

Just because all of those factors are "better", doesn't mean it'll be pleasant to your ears.

+1

This is a very subjective field. (As it should be IMHO.) One man's "perfection" will always be another man's "crap", and vice versa. Therefore, multiple builders will always be in demand.

SactoBass · #13 10-19-2010, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4-string

Interesting that you have seen the light without owning (or even hearing?) one.

Yes, I have heard a fEarful 15/6. I failed to mention that in my original post. It was a band that played locally in an outdoor setting about a year ago. I chatted briefly with the bassist after the gig. I asked him about his gear because I was so impressed with his sound. He mentioned the fEarful cab he was playing through. He said he built it himself from the plans. At the time, I had never heard of the name fEarful, so it didn't really mean much to me. I just remember how great the sound was coming out of that cab. He didn't even play through the PA....just the cab. I didn't think much more about it at the time because I wasn't into building my own cabs, so I kinda shrugged it off. DAYUM that cab sounded good!

Selta · #14 10-19-2010, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SactoBass

Yes, I have heard a fEarful 15/6. I failed to mention that in my original post. It was a band that played locally in an outdoor setting about a year ago. I chatted briefly with the bassist after the gig. I asked him about his gear because I was so impressed with his sound. He mentioned the fEarful cab he was playing through. He said he built it himself from the plans. At the time, I had never heard of the name fEarful, so it didn't really mean much to me. I just remember how great the sound was coming out of that cab. He didn't even play through the PA....just the cab. I didn't think much more about it at the time because I wasn't into building my own cabs, so I kinda shrugged it off. DAYUM that cab sounded good!

That's pretty impressive that you can remember another bassists tone from an outdoor gig about a year ago.

::::BASSIST:::: · #15 10-19-2010, 11:51 PM

Well, there are some very nice commercial cabs out there to match everybody's tastes and requirements.

That said, I love the 15/6 design and I will likely have one form or another of that kind of cab for the rest of my playing days.

will33 · #16 10-20-2010, 12:03 AM

I've found through much experimentation that I like the woofer/mid design for bass if the woofer(s) have 3 to 4 db edge over the mid/high end of things. Is it "perfect"....nope. Does it suit my idea of what a bass should sound like?.....yup.

The other "problem", it's not really a problem but a challenge, is the 4-5k extension that's typical of 6" mid drivers. I like the dispersion and being able to hear myself all over the stage but I don't like/need much for high treble in my sound. I still find myself rolling off the tone knob on the instrument (and not just on a P, all flavors of basses) to take away a little bit of what I think sounds like too much.

For whatever reason, I don't know, it sounds better to roll it off a little on the bass rather than cutting a little treble on the amp....never been able to figure that one out.

JimmyM · #17 10-20-2010, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

I've found through much experimentation that I like the woofer/mid design for bass if the woofer(s) have 3 to 4 db edge over the mid/high end of things. Is it "perfect"....nope. Does it suit my idea of what a bass should sound like?.....yup.

The other "problem", it's not really a problem but a challenge, is the 4-5k extension that's typical of 6" mid drivers. I like the dispersion and being able to hear myself all over the stage but I don't like/need much for high treble in my sound. I still find myself rolling off the tone knob on the instrument (and not just on a P, all flavors of basses) to take away a little bit of what I think sounds like too much.

For whatever reason, I don't know, it sounds better to roll it off a little on the bass rather than cutting a little treble on the amp....never been able to figure that one out.

most basses have a tone knob that gradually rolls off freqs in a linear manner starting at the highest highs, whereas bass amps usually have a treble knob centered at a certain frequency which only affects the freqs surrounding the center freq. one exception is the markbass amps, which have a vle knob that works in much the same manner as the tone knob on a bass, and should be standard equipment on all amps imho.

Adam Bomb · #18 10-20-2010, 12:12 AM

If you grabbed up everyone I love and told me that I had to build a functioning bass cab from the plans you provided, or you would kill the whole lot of them, I would have no choice but to go all Harrison Ford on you and save them. Because if I tried instead to build the cab, then they would all be dead.

--Bomb

Kwesi · #19 10-20-2010, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Salamon

Just because all of those factors are "better", doesn't mean it'll be pleasant to your ears.

/thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I7Ue...eature=related

will33 · #20 10-20-2010, 12:16 AM

Standard equipment should be, yes I agree. I get all the eq stuff and understand what to do if something has a shelving treble set at 5k or a 1-1/3 octave adjustment with a frequency sweep but I've never been able to get the exact sound as you get with rolling off a tone knob with a little passive capacitor in there. I just let the amp be the amp and the bass be the bass and the rest is up to me I guess.