How many watts do I really need?

[Mugre]

As regards to the "mud" when you add bass in FOH. Sometimes, this can be improved by switching the polarity at the FOH input. Many better mixers have this option. If not, it might be on the direct box or can be done with a simple cable adaptor. In larger rooms with SR flown well ahead of the backline, it's becoming common to time delay to the backline to address the time smear and get the arrival time coherent.

[Mike in Chicago]

This is for Jimmy M...outside on a flat semi trailer, w V4b, SVT bottom, my early '70 Precision (after I cut off some of the tortise shell pickguard), some of my drummers Ludwig Octaplus set (remember those? it had had 2 28" bass drums)

And the look that launched grunge (check the "On Your Feet, Or On Your Knees" BOC Tshirt)...oh yeah...the Frye boots.

[JimmyM]

Hell yeah!

[Matt Dean]

I regularly gig in SF North Bay clubs with a 200 watt Mesa Buster 200 and 2 1x15s.

[George Mann]

Originally Posted by jungleheat

None of this is correct, except the middle bit which isn't too far off.. Beyond that it doesn't even make sense within itself. If guitar is "1.5x" louder, why do you need 150w to match 30 watts? That's 5 times as much, instead of 50% more as the 1.5x factor would indicate.

Your uneducated tripe is not worth an educated response!

[kindenrock]

So will a head with 580 W at 4 ohms kill a 2x12 cabinet with a rating of 400 W rms at 4 ohms? I have only had combo amps to date and dont want to pay a bunch of cash for a cab thats going to fry.

[Downunderwonder]

Originally Posted by kindenrock

So will a head with 580 W at 4 ohms kill a 2x12 cabinet with a rating of 400 W rms at 4 ohms? I have only had combo amps to date and dont want to pay a bunch of cash for a cab thats going to fry.

Can it? More easily than you can imagine, but really, it's fine. It will only kill it if you ignore the warning sounds and try to get more out of the cab than it can provide.

The 2x12 could be more honestly rated than others, and the amp less, but still there is danger.

[sratas]

Originally Posted by kindenrock

So will a head with 580 W at 4 ohms kill a 2x12 cabinet with a rating of 400 W rms at 4 ohms? I have only had combo amps to date and dont want to pay a bunch of cash for a cab thats going to fry.

if you push your amp for a certain time and don't use a bit if care when setting the tone controls, well, yes. Such a head can fry those drivers, but, most of all, it will damage them far before frying the voice coils. This kind of trouble often happens because most drivers reach their excursion and mechanical limits much before the melting point of the coils, especially the "traditional" speakers. The newer so called "super" PA-like ones (think fEarFul, barefaced etc.) are another story.
If you think that 250 watts, expressed mostly in lows and low mids (beware the EQ setting!), could destroy those drivers, you could be not far from reality, even if this example is a simplification of a complex argument.

[kindenrock]

Thanks for the info. I dont typically play big rooms, so I cant see myself pushing the master much past 11 or 12 oclock. Still, it may be better to get a bit bigger cab.

[5StringThunder]

I use 350w through a 410 and 115. I have to compete with two Marshall 120w half stacks and a drummer who is loud as all get out. I usually only turn up to about 2, 2.5 if I want to get really crazy. One day I turned it up o 5 at practice and things that were hanging from the ceiling started falling.

[Bass_Pounder]

Originally Posted by kindenrock

Thanks for the info. I dont typically play big rooms, so I cant see myself pushing the master much past 11 or 12 oclock. Still, it may be better to get a bit bigger cab.

Knob position means nothing.

Depending on your EQ'ing and gain staging, many amps are at their full output by "noon" on the volume knob.

[ThisBass]

Nice thread about, ...nothing

[kindenrock]

Ok. this all seems fairly confusing. I got an amazing deal on a used Mesa big block 750. Now I am trying to match a cab that I can rehearse with in my livingroom and gig in small (<250) clubs.

At the moment I am looking at the Eden D212XLT4, the Orange SP212 600W, and the Genz Benz NEOX-212T 600W. Part of my problem is that I am not near a major centre and cant really test anything out.

Based on what I have read on these forums and elsewhere, it seems like a 212 is a good place to start.

Thoughts?

[Ferdugan]

Just got me a marshall vba 400 watt with a mesa powerhouse vintage 8x10. I have an obsession with large amounts of power my band plays to that stupid loud level and my ampeg svt 3 just doesn't do it for me.

[Downunderwonder]

Originally Posted by kindenrock

Ok. this all seems fairly confusing. I got an amazing deal on a used Mesa big block 750. Now I am trying to match a cab that I can rehearse with in my livingroom and gig in small (<250) clubs.

At the moment I am looking at the Eden D212XLT4, the Orange SP212 600W, and the Genz Benz NEOX-212T 600W. Part of my problem is that I am not near a major centre and cant really test anything out.

Based on what I have read on these forums and elsewhere, it seems like a 212 is a good place to start.

Thoughts?

The Genz has a nice vertical alignment. Hopefully you get good PA for anything that it can't cover, but if not another vertical on top will do the job.

[Downunderwonder]

Woah, 1100 smackers! There's some boutique builders want your money too. Fearful, BFM, LDS, Duke, Arnopol.... Flatpacks for the first two if you can glue and paint.