How many watts do I really need?

[B-string]

I had no trouble with 200 watts into a 215 for MANY years against two guitarists and dynamic drummer. Yes I have 500 now with either a 412 or 212, but I never get to turn the master up much at all.

[two fingers]

I'm sorry but you guys really don't have enough information to make recommendations at this point. Just saying "300W and a 4-10" still leaves a gagillion possibilities. I would argue that there's no comparison between a 300W SVT with an Ampeg 410HLF Pro (stupid loud) 4-10 and a Behringer 300W head with a Fender Rumble 4-10. They are worlds apart. They don't even belong in the same conversation as far as volume OR budget (never mind tone).

The guy is asking about watts and volume. He needs to understand the concept that he is asking the wrong question first. And THEN we can lend a hand to help him figure out a first rig.

As far as "under 300W is a waste of time", that's a ridiculous statement. I have run an Ampeg V4 (ONE hundred watts) with an 8-10 cab and I dare you to bring me a drummer or any two guitar players I can't keep up with using that rig. I filled a club with no PA support using that setup. I have also run an SVT 6 pro (ELEVEN hundred watts) with the wrong 4-10 cab and couldn't even hear myself on stage nearly killing the cab. Watts don't mean squat.

[B-string]

Actually watts mean squat, without the right speaker cabs to use them. Yes I said the same thing another way

[JimmyM]

Watts do mean squat, but they're certainly not the be-all and end-all of loudness.

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by two fingers

I'm sorry but you guys really don't have enough information to make recommendations at this point. Just saying "300W and a 4-10" still leaves a gagillion possibilities. I would argue that there's no comparison between a 300W SVT with an Ampeg 410HLF Pro (stupid loud) 4-10 and a Behringer 300W head with a Fender Rumble 4-10. They are worlds apart. They don't even belong in the same conversation as far as volume OR budget (never mind tone).

The guy is asking about watts and volume. He needs to understand the concept that he is asking the wrong question first. And THEN we can lend a hand to help him figure out a first rig.

As far as "under 300W is a waste of time", that's a ridiculous statement. I have run an Ampeg V4 (ONE hundred watts) with an 8-10 cab and I dare you to bring me a drummer or any two guitar players I can't keep up with using that rig. I filled a club with no PA support using that setup. I have also run an SVT 6 pro (ELEVEN hundred watts) with the wrong 4-10 cab and couldn't even hear myself on stage nearly killing the cab. Watts don't mean squat.

Most guys I know (including myself) who've used a V4 or a variant of it seem to find it ridiculously underwhelming in a band context. I don't doubt you made it work, but it certainly didn't work for me.

[B-string]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Watts do mean squat, but they're certainly not the be-all and end-all of loudness.

Wattage into a light bulb or resistor make no sound at all.

[Downunderwonder]

Originally Posted by Bassamatic

No
Double the amp power, everything else the same, gives you less than ONE dB SPL (acoustic power) increase. Double the speakers and the power and you will get about +3dB SPL (acoustic) power. It will vary a little due to various coupling, loss and propagation issues. If you have an amp with a dB meter on it and a SPL app for your smartphone you can see this for yourself very easily.

3 dB SPL is accepted as the minimal step that most people can hear. It is actually twice as loud according to the definition of the dB scale. However, in a subjective measurement, what many people would says is "twice as loud" to their ear may be closer to 10 dB - 10 times - louder.

.

I can't believe you want to bat this out again, and again, and again.

Bell Labs wrote the defintions, not yellow man. Read this loon's sig line, he is surely trollling.

[Cirk]

In an attempt to sum this up (no disrespect intended toward anyone):
A quality 300 watt amp into a quality 4x10 or 2x15 should work.
Buying used gear will get you more for your money, but make sure everything works as it should. If it's beat, pass on it.
A few handy features to look for are a built in DI and compressor. Try out every combination available to see what tone suits you. If it's within your budget and sounds good to your ears, then smile and roll with it.
Best of luck in your search!

To my esteemed colleagues, did I get this about right? When I'm this tired, I tend to ramble and don't make much sense.

[Cirk]

And don't forget to wear earplugs. That ringing in the ears is not a good thing, especially in the long run. Not to get on a soapbox or anything, but it is a big deal.

[B-string]

Most built in compressors are not all that great. I would recommend learning technique over learning to play with a compressor. Other than that I would say you did pretty well.

[M. Owen Santy]

400w Hybrid/Solid State 2x10 combo will take charge of most anything you want to do. Just stretch your budget with used gear that can expand to a second cabinet if you should ever need it.

Traynor, SWR, Fender & GK all have great sounding stuff in 2x10 combos. To me the question is whether you want to invest in an amp that you want to keep a while - or one you will loose money on re-selling it a year from now when you have to upgrade.

[Downunderwonder]

It all comes down to how loud the rest of the band plays, and how loud they really should be playing given the venue size and PA arrangements.

Frequently bands do themselves a disservice by trying to emulate rock gods with big stacks of speakers. A sizable bar stage can be carried by a single 12" for 30W guitar and 200W amp driving a 2x10 for the bass while the PA does the rest.

[M. Owen Santy]

Originally Posted by Cirk

And don't forget to wear earplugs. That ringing in the ears is not a good thing, especially in the long run. Not to get on a soapbox or anything, but it is a big deal.

+1111111111111

Ask my hearing aids - I'm only 43.

[Cirk]

Thanks. I'm a little ignorant about onboard compression. My boogie doesn't have it so I have an old EHX Low Frequency Compressor. Wish I could use it here, but the downstairs neighbors whine.

[faulknersj]

500 minimum. More doesn't hurt.

[rodl2005]

436

[AdamR]

My first real bass amp in high school was a Peavey TNT115. 150 watts, 1-15" speaker. It was plenty loud enough for a drummer and 2 guitars. Something like a GK MB combo would be great, You can always buy one of the powered cabinets to go with it later.

[AuntieBeeb]

Originally Posted by AdamR

My first real bass amp in high school was a Peavey TNT115. 150 watts, 1-15" speaker. It was plenty loud enough for a drummer and 2 guitars. Something like a GK MB combo would be great, You can always buy one of the powered cabinets to go with it later.

Likewise, I made do with a 120W 115 for a number of years (it was a Laney HCM120B...sadly no longer in production!) and it always held its own at the smaller-to-medium size gigs. Hardest I ever drove it was a gig at Covent Garden Arts Theatre, with no PA support. Granted, it was seriously overdriven by that point, but if you don't mind a John Entwistle/Lemmy type tone that's not necessarily a problem. I only upgraded because that one broke down (now running a 300W 115 - Laney RB8)

The main advantage of 115s is they're a bit more portable than 410s. Obviously it will be less powerful, but if you find one with a socket to attach additional cabs, you can get the extra volume you'll need for bigger gigs.

[MostlyBass]

I used to think MORE MORE MORE. I have two setups:
Carvin BX500 into a 1X15 Epifani cab
MarkBass Jeff Berlin Combo

Both setups are 300watts in 8ohms which is how I run them. I use the Carvin setup at practice and the MarkBass at gigs.

I play in 7 piece rock band and at practice my volume is at 2 or less and at gigs around 3. It's not just about the volume but also having headroom to eq and to sound how I want.

[sokolasty]

I've played few rehearsals with a pop band. The drummer was the key. He played very quiet. Guitarist used a 6,5" Peavey combo, I used Hartke 3500 + 1x Celestion BL10-100 cab (cranked up to 3). It worked great. No earplug needed.