How much difference will 50 watts make?

topper · #1 04-02-2010, 05:11 AM

Been thinking about swapping my Genz Benz neo pak 3.5 for a Shuttle. The shuttle 3.0 is about 50 watts less power than the neo pak. How significant of a loss in volume is this likely to be?

Right now I play in a 5 piece. Guitar player uses a mesa 40 watt combo. I'm plenty loud with the master on the neo at around the 8 or 9 'oclock position.

Jim Nazium · #2 04-02-2010, 05:20 AM

None. First of all, amplifier power has to double to produce roughly 10% more volume; and second, unless both amps were tested with identical loads, the claimed max power outputs of the two amps may not be comparable anyway.

Jaco who? · #3 04-02-2010, 05:21 AM

The smallest audible increase in volume is 3 dB. 3dB requires twice the original power. The more important question would be will the 2Ω conversion with the neopak work better with the cabs that you have.

JimmyM · #4 04-02-2010, 05:32 AM

"I'm plenty loud with the master on the neo at around the 8 or 9 'oclock position."

so what's the problem?

KJung · #5 04-02-2010, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Nazium

None. First of all, amplifier power has to double to produce roughly 10% more volume; and second, unless both amps were tested with identical loads, the claimed max power outputs of the two amps may not be comparable anyway.

+1 that comparing 'published rated power specs' across different amp designs can be quite misleading.

However, the 'doubling of power to produce 10% more volume', while true in an absolute sense, is an oversimplification. When are are using an amp that has relatively low power, adding another 50 or 100 watts can make a HUGE difference regarding an uncompressed low end and a more open sound. Running a low power amp into power amp limiting versus one with slightly more power that allows you to not reach that amps limits can be a life changing experience.

To the OP, the Neo Pak and 3 sound quite different, due to the tube versus solid state. I like the Shuttle 3 better myself, but in my limited A/Bing in a music store setting, the Neo Pak seemed to put out more volume and low end into 4ohms, even though it was a bit grindier tonewise. I'd stick with what you have.

JimmyM · #6 04-02-2010, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

+1 that comparing 'published rated power specs' across different amp designs can be quite misleading.

However, the 'doubling of power to produce 10% more volume', while true in an absolute sense, is an oversimplification. When are are using an amp that has relatively low power, adding another 50 or 100 watts can make a HUGE difference regarding an uncompressed low end and a more open sound. Running a low power amp into power amp limiting versus one with slightly more power that allows you to not reach that amps limits can be a life changing experience.

i would suggest that 50w isn't going to make a lick of difference in that area, either, especially in his situation where he's got enough volume at relatively low settings. honestly, i think headroom is grossly overrated by many. you have to have some if you want to play clean, but an extra 50w isn't going to make or break anyone unless they're starting out with a 50w amp

KJung · #7 04-02-2010, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

i would suggest that 50w isn't going to make a lick of difference in that area, either, especially in his situation where he's got enough volume at relatively low settings. honestly, i think headroom is grossly overrated by many. you have to have some if you want to play clean, but an extra 50w isn't going to make or break anyone unless they're starting out with a 50w amp

I agree.... 50 watts is a pretty small amount in any situation, especially when the published wattage is pretty 'non-comparable' across units. The voicing of the pre, the setting of the low and hi pass fixed filters/voicing, etc. would have more of an impact.

topper · #8 04-02-2010, 09:20 AM

I really like the voice of my Neo Pak. I'm just gassing for smaller, lighter gear. I run the Neo Pak at either 4 or 8 ohms. It'll do 2, but I've never had the need, so I doubt that'll be an issue.

It sounds like the consensus is that the actual perceptible difference in loudness is not going to be significant with a 50 watt cut in power.

I do like the tube pre in my Neo Pak and the Shuttle 6.0 has one. I just don't have the cash for a 6.0 right now.

I think I'm going to give the 3.0 a shot. Thanks for all the info!

Jaco who? · #9 04-02-2010, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topper

I really like the voice of my Neo Pak. I'm just gassing for smaller, lighter gear.
I think I'm going to give the 3.0 a shot. Thanks for all the info!

If there's something inherently better about the tone of the 3.0 that you just can't get with the neopak, I 'spose that's one thing, but to change amps just to subtract five and three quarters pounds from your load in seems a little crazy to me. They don't make the neopak anymore, and they're only going to get harder to find. You could get the 3.0 when you have the money, and keep the neopak for now. Just a thought.

steveksux · #10 04-02-2010, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topper

Been thinking about swapping my Genz Benz neo pak 3.5 for a Shuttle. The shuttle 3.0 is about 50 watts less power than the neo pak. How significant of a loss in volume is this likely to be?

Right now I play in a 5 piece. Guitar player uses a mesa 40 watt combo. I'm plenty loud with the master on the neo at around the 8 or 9 'oclock position.

Unless you're pushing your current amp almost to the limit, losing 50 watts will have absolutely no effect whatsoever.

You'll be "losing" 50 watts that you are not currently using anyway. What you're asking is whether a 350 watt amp putting out 200 watts is louder than a 300 watt amp putting out 200 watts. Answer: they're both putting out 200 watts, no difference.

Its not like "is a 200 watt light bulb brighter than a 100w bulb"? Yes, because they're using that much wattage all the time. An amps wattage output is proportional to its volume. Your amp is putting out zero watts in between the notes you play.
Randy

topper · #11 04-02-2010, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaco who?

to change amps just to subtract five and three quarters pounds from your load in seems a little crazy to me.

Oh I readily admit this is all about G.A.S. It doesn't make sense at all.

In my defense I will say it isn't just the weight. Size matters too. I could put the shuttle in a book bag with my pedal board, cables and other gear. Bass in one hand, my Avatar neo 112 cab in the other and I can go from car to practice in one trip.