How much power is REALLY needed on stage?

[Electricblue]

Just for general research really.

Ive heard some people on here say that their 1200w stack gets drowned out by drums, others say they have used a 15w GUITAR amp with drums...

Here to find some answers, so feel free to give some input.

[Bassflute]

Originally Posted by Electricblue

Just for general research really.

Ive heard some people on here say that their 1200w stack gets drowned out by drums, others say they have used a 15w GUITAR amp with drums...

Here to find some answers, so feel free to give some input.

get as much as you can possibly afford, you're going to need it. For headroom, depth, and clarity. Reproducing bass frequencies is a VERY steep bell curve. Each octave requires MAGNITUDES more power for the same output levels. There are charts around - look it up.

Cheers,
Cameron

[BurningSkies]

Repeat to yourself:

Every stage is different
Every bass player is different
Every band is different
Every amp is different
Every cab is different


You get the idea. No way in knowing what works for a given person or situation. Wattage in the grand scheme of things means nothing.

[rockstarbassist]

Enough to where I can turn up loud enough to hear myself and the amp doesn't sound like garbage.

Mine goes to 900W yet I rarely get past 9:00 even at gig levels. So, there. That's how much.

[HeadyVan Halen]

We are talking having PA support right?
100W Ampeg Combo has been *enough* to make loud sounds, but having to push an amp to hard compromises tone to me.
I'd say with good PA support, 250-350 is good...as with anything in America, more is better though.

On the lead guitar side, it's completely different. I use my Blues Jr. faithfully and get nothing but the best tone i've ever heard. But those all tube amps, you wanna drive a little harder than usual. Get it in the sweet spot(what she told me last night) and then PA it from there.


<side note> None of the above applies if your playing the Orange Bowl or something similar, but for most normal sized clubs, it should apply.

[guroove]

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

Repeat to yourself:

Every stage is different
Every bass player is different
Every band is different
Every amp is different
Every cab is different


You get the idea. No way in knowing what works for a given person or situation. Wattage in the grand scheme of things means nothing.

This. In my experience, I have been downsizing my amps recently, and I have been able to do most of my gigs and rehearsals with as little as 50 watts, even in an 11 piece band. On some stages, I have had trouble hearing myself with anything less than 300 watts, but at gigs like that, backline has always been provided.

[T-Bird]

Hi.

The only answer You'll get is that it depends.

In reality, even a standard EADG bass has a hard time competing with a heavy handed drummer or a 100W Marshall full stack at full blast, regardless of the wattage. Drop it down to B or F#, and things get very hard, and very expensive.

Then again, on a soft jazz or blues coffee house type of a gig, 25 or so watts can be more than enough.

The required tone complicates things even more. A low end heavy tone will "eat" watts like there's no tomorrow, but mid heavy, thin bottom tone can be loud with way less watts.

You also have to take the speaker cone area and the speaker efficiency into the equation, amp (or cab for that matter) watts alone won't do a squat.

Regards
Sam

[KJung]

This topic is near and dear to my heart. As a few others have posted above... it depends. It depends on so many things that there is no answer to the question.

If you love a deep, deep tone that requires a cab with only moderate sensitivity (i.e., deep low end extension way down low), and you play quite loud, you might need a shocking amoung of power and cone area (i.e., 1000 watts and 2 x 212 or something) to be as loud as another guy who digs in at the bridge on a passive J bass with the bridge pickup solo'd, and can scream with a 112 and 200 watts.

Technique has a lot do do with it also. If you are a slapper, it is amazing how much power and cone area you can need to propel a nice, open, non compressed, deeply voiced 'thump' through a dense mix on a large stage.

I guess an overly simplified answer as a guideline is that for typical fingerstyle playing without a ton of low end boosted, 300-500 watts into a 212 or 410 will do probably 90% of the gigs on earth... from loud bar gigs with no PA support, to large stages with PA support but minimal bass support in the monitors. If you like a particularly midrangey tone... subtract a driver or two and a 100 watts or two. If you really like the deep boom and/or use aggressive technique and like a reasonably clean tone, add a couple hundred watts and a couple of drivers!

[Floyd Eye]

The short answer is 8 buttloads. Seriously.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Floyd Eye

The short answer is 8 buttloads. Seriously.

Actually, that is probably as useful as all my blah, blah above. It is hard to have 'too much power'. That is what the master volume knob is far.

[SactoBass]

1.21 gigawatts!

But seriously, the lower you go in frequency, the need for power increases at a geometric rate. So, it all depends on how loud and clear you want your low freqs to be. KenJ nailed it.

[Phalex]

I've found that 100W with a 4x10 is enough to be heard over drums and other stuff. 100W 1x10 is useless.

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by Floyd Eye

The short answer is 8 buttloads.

Metric or Imperial ?

[Floyd Eye]

I am from the school of thought that I want to be very loud and when I don't want to be as loud, I play softer. Kick in the boost with your right hand, if you catch my drift. I am in a 3 piece hard rock/alternative band though.

[Floyd Eye]

Originally Posted by Passinwind

Metric or Imperial ?

Whichever one is more.

[Eric Grossman]

I like to have PLENTY of headroom, so my sound is never unintentionally overdriven. It needs to sound "like my bass". I turn up loud enough so that can play with nuance, and never harder than I want to. Headroom is the key for me. Neither my master nor my gain is ever past 5:00.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Eric Grossman

I like to have PLENTY of headroom, so my sound is never unintentionally overdriven. It needs to sound "like my bass". I turn up loud enough so that can play with nuance, and never harder than I want to. Headroom is the key for me. Neither my master nor my gain is ever past 5:00.

Remember, the position of the knobs means virtually nothing. One of my amps reaches virtually max power at around 11 o'clock on the master with the gain control set just under clip. Another one doesn't even start to cook until that master is well past 1 o'clock. And the gain setting is totally dependent on the output of the instrument... it is primarily there to correct for differences in input volume.

Again, kind of off topic, but not really. Many feel they have lots of reserve power since the position of the knobs is relatively low. This might not be the case, and all these different linear and audio pot tapers makes it impossible to compare amps by 'knob position'.

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by Eric Grossman

I like to have PLENTY of headroom, so my sound is never unintentionally overdriven. It needs to sound "like my bass". I turn up loud enough so that can play with nuance, and never harder than I want to. Headroom is the key for me. Neither my master nor my gain is ever past 5:00.

5 o'clock sure looks like all the way up to me.

+1 to Ken's comments though.

[mpdd]

i have almost always used a tube head and a 115, whether the head be 100, 120, or 200 watts, and the only times i couldn't be heard were when i was actually vibrating the entire structure of somebody's house at a party and you couldn't hear me at all

[redheadfreak]

Efficiency is what is important.
All your power is sucked away if you have an inefficient cabinet.