I can't decide on a preamp!

[u84six]

Hi,

I'm almost done selecting the components for my rig. So far I've got a Crown XLS 2500 Drivecore going into a fEARful 15/6/1. Plenty of power going into a cab that can handle it (no worries about headroom there! ). But I can't decide on a freakin' preamp! Most stores around here don't carry many so I can't try out the ones I'd like to test. I suppose I could do the ol' purchase-and-return thing, and that's what I'll probably do, but there are so many. I'd like to narrow it down. Money is not an object here (I'm not a big spender on other things so I deserve a good rig).

I know I can use either a preamp or channel strip. I like the idea of a channel strip because I could also use it for vocals in my home studio, but I'd also settle for a regular preamp. The problems is that I don't see many discussions about the different preamps anywhere. There are some threads here and there, but they date back a bit.

The tone I like to dial in is all bass, low and warm. I'm not a slapper or popper, and I don't like the sound of tinny strings. I'm all about deep warmth (which most people know around here from my many threads). Here are the preamps and channels strips I'm currently interested in:

- Fender TBP-1. I see mixed reviews about this one, but what's appealing is that it sounds close to a Bassman and I like that sound. But some reviews say the tube it uses is practically useless.

- Alembic F-1x. Reviews say that it has a nice old-school warm sound which is also appealing, but some reviews say it's too colored and that the EQ is generally useless.

- Demeter VTBP-201S. Generally gets good reviews, but most say that its strength lies in its high-end, which I'm not too crazy about.

- Kern. Can't find one, otherwise I'd probably try it because all the reviews are stellar.

- SansAmp RBI. Gets decent reviews, but this is more amp/cab modeling in which I've never used so I don't know what to expect. Can it dial in deep tones or is its strength in grit and distortion? I'm not big on too much fuzz.

- Universal Audio LA-610 MKII. This thing sounds amazing! But there are 2 things I'm worried about. Lugging a high-end device like this around to gigs, and it may be too slow of a response when playing (the sound drags out).

Can anyone give me some advice for a preamp or channel strip? Deep, warm, and fat. That's what I like.

[esa372]

Your building my new rig for me? Thanks!

I prefer the Alembic F-1X pre-amp. ...and, no; the EQ on it is not useless.

[hgregs]

the alembic f1x (and f2b for that matter) are both modeled after the fender (blackface i believe) circuit. the EQ controls are also fender-based (interactive- where flat is 2-10-2 same as the old fender circuit). if you're looking for the bassman sound, that's the goal of the alembic. either can be had at a good price on the used market. here's a decent thread on them:

Alembic: F-1X vs. F-2B

[Bob C]

u84six,

I went on a similar journey several years ago. I thought I really wanted some Acme cabs, and that I should get big power to run them. Furthermore, I thought it was a plus to be able to swap power and preamps until I found what worked for me.

I bought a QSC power amp and eventually a Demeter HBP1 preamp. I never did get around to affording the Acmes, and have since kind of changed my mind.

You need to do some more reading and also try out whatever you can get your hands on. It involves some trial and error and can get expensive. However, you can find some great used deals and resell what you don't want.

There are tons of preamp threads on Talkbass. Maybe most of them are older because all-in-ones are back in fashion these days.

I can't say whether a channel strip will suit your needs for live use. Here are some preamps I've tried out in stores:

1 Eden Navigator. Just saw one for sale cheap on Talkbass. Warm, gritty, lots of bells and whistles
2 Kern. Rare, but they still pop up used. Tubey. Limited features.
3 Demeter. Very clean. Stronger in the high-end, but gets low too. The H Series has 2-band parametric EQ
4 Ashdown RPM (?) Discontinued. Tubiest sounding solid state pre.
5 Ampeg SVP. Sounds like Ampeg.
6 Trace Elliot GP12 (or something like that). Trace signature sound. TE is owned by Peavey now. Don't know if they still make this model.
7 Aguilar DB680 (?) Tube pre. Warm and creamy.

There are ten or twenty more I can't recall at the moment. If you buy something and it's not your thing, don't get soured. Separates involve some tweaking and finding the right combination.

[anonymous02282011]

Millennia TD-1 and the Evil Twin (Eclair engineering).

Find a Millennia dealer near you and you can probably test drive one.

You can't audition an Evil Twin, but it does big warm and fat very well.

[Lo-E]

I've used Eden Navigator, Aguilar and Ampeg - all with good results. Also used an Avalon 737 as an input stage, an old Groove Tubes tube direct box/preamp and even a Fat Man compressor as a pre with good results.

I'd lean toward a dedicated bass preamp over a channel strip or DI/preamp arrangement if you're planning to use this as a live rig. I feel that dedicated bass preamps are well suited to making quick, effective EQ changes in a live situation. For EQ flexibility, the Eden is a fave of mine.

[u84six]

Originally Posted by hgregs

the alembic f1x (and f2b for that matter) are both modeled after the fender (blackface i believe) circuit. the EQ controls are also fender-based (interactive- where flat is 2-10-2 same as the old fender circuit). if you're looking for the bassman sound, that's the goal of the alembic. either can be had at a good price on the used market. here's a decent thread on them:

Alembic: F-1X vs. F-2B

Thanks for the link. Very interesting!

[funkinbottom]

I tried most of what you listed above with the exception of the Kern and UA when I was shopping for a preamp. It seems we have similar goals tone wise, and I'm not into the slap & pop thing either. Of those listed, I personally found the Fender most pleasing. However, just before pulling the trigger on the TBP-1, I tried a friends BBE BMAX and fell in love with it. I felt the BBE produced everything tone wise the TBP-1 did and has some added features. Compressor. If you use it, I don't. And has built in sonic maximiser, a great feature. Plus the BBE goes for 'bout $299, compared to the TBP-1 at $799 or so.
Hope that helps. You will probably get a million different opinions, so in the end youll have to decide what works best for you.

[u84six]

Originally Posted by Lo-E

I've used Eden Navigator, Aguilar and Ampeg - all with good results. Also used an Avalon 737 as an input stage, an old Groove Tubes tube direct box/preamp and even a Fat Man compressor as a pre with good results.

I'd lean toward a dedicated bass preamp over a channel strip or DI/preamp arrangement if you're planning to use this as a live rig. I feel that dedicated bass preamps are well suited to making quick, effective EQ changes in a live situation. For EQ flexibility, the Eden is a fave of mine.

I have to agree. Channel strips are best suited for recording especially if your band is loud and the subtle nuances of a channel strip aren't even heard. So yeah, I'm leaning towards a preamp.

[u84six]

Originally Posted by funkinbottom

I tried most of what you listed above with the exception of the Kern and UA when I was shopping for a preamp. It seems we have similar goals tone wise, and I'm not into the slap & pop thing either. Of those listed, I personally found the Fender most pleasing. However, just before pulling the trigger on the TBP-1, I tried a friends BBE BMAX and fell in love with it. I felt the BBE produced everything tone wise the TBP-1 did and has some added features. Compressor. If you use it, I don't. And has built in sonic maximiser, a great feature. Plus the BBE goes for 'bout $299, compared to the TBP-1 at $799 or so.
Hope that helps. You will probably get a million different opinions, so in the end youll have to decide what works best for you.

Yes, I understand that these threads are based on subjective responses, but I do take everyone's opinions seriously and piece it together for an actual result. If I didn't come to TB I would have never known about fEARful cabs.

I also agree that the Fender is rather overpriced for what it is, where other preamps that are less expensive might even be better for what I need. Thank you.

[Lonesomedave]

if you have the bucks, i say go with the Universal Audio solo 610... or if you have even more bucks, the universal Audio LA 610, with built in compressor and eq.

i have tried one at our local store, and all i can say is "WOW", the thing is amazing and will give you any tone from super clean, through varying amounts of gain.

i am getting one for my son when we have the $, probably the LA 610.

don't have any experience with it's reliability, but the guy at the local music store, who is a sound guy and deals with hundreds of components and has no reason to favor one over another, says it is very reliable.

the only drawback that i can see is the solo 610 won't fit in a normal rack space, but the LA will. the sound guy at the store said it will take up 2 rack spaces.

/s/ Dave

ps- edit- I must admit a bias for tubes and tube sounds. the 610 is old school tube all the way, which is the reason for it's high cost

[Jim Carr]

I like the TBP-1, and the Demeter. I also like both BBE units, the tube and FET models.
If you can find one of these, give it a try (ART model 259 channel strip): basstasters.com || welcome

I love mine. Great most flexible EQ ever, warm, and nice tube-like compressor. They are discontinued, but come up used on TB now and then—usually cheap.

[scowboy]

Eden for the reasons everbody has previously mentioned. I've had 3 Demeter HBP-1 and I just like the Eden better, the eq, compressor and drive are great.

[Peg_legs]

There are some small affordable options like the Aguilar Tone Hammer (like it a lot), various Sansamps (I had the rack version and my drummer says it was the best tone of every setup i have ever had which is way too many), VT Bass for that Ampeg sound (just ordered it). i had the Ashdown and it wasn't my sound. A billion options here.

[u84six]

Originally Posted by Lonesomedave

if you have the bucks, i say go with the Universal Audio solo 610... or if you have even more bucks, the universal Audio LA 610, with built in compressor and eq.

i have tried one at our local store, and all i can say is "WOW", the thing is amazing and will give you any tone from super clean, through varying amounts of gain.

i am getting one for my son when we have the $, probably the LA 610.

don't have any experience with it's reliability, but the guy at the local music store, who is a sound guy and deals with hundreds of components and has no reason to favor one over another, says it is very reliable.

the only drawback that i can see is the solo 610 won't fit in a normal rack space, but the LA will. the sound guy at the store said it will take up 2 rack spaces.

/s/ Dave

ps- edit- I must admit a bias for tubes and tube sounds. the 610 is old school tube all the way, which is the reason for it's high cost

Question, did you notice any slowness when playing? Meaning, did the output drag (delay) behind after plucking a note? Also, I gig a lot, did he say anything about it moving around too much might cause problems?

Thanks

p.s. After hearing bass through this unit I felt like nothing could be better. Seriously, if this thing is reliable for gigging, I may end up snagging it. It just sounds soooooooooo good. The only thing I worry about is that my band may drown out all its warmth. But on the other hand, it will be going through a fEARful.

[u84six]

All I can say is WOW!

Universal Audio LA-610 Channel Strip Demonstration - YouTube

[Lonesomedave]

U84six;

i completely agree. after hearing it and playing with it at the store, i am getting one.

as far as the questions you asked me, he said it was reliable for gigging.

if you want, pm me and i will give you his name and number.

it is a big store in nashville and they cater to the stars. he has a college degree in this stuff, and has been nothing but kind to me and my son. they cannot afford to be less than honest, because of where and who they are.

i am sure if you called him and talked to him he would be the same for you (BTW i don't have any connection to the store except as a customer- if you buy anything from them i don't make a cent and if you don't buy i am not out... i literally don't have a dog in the hunt, but i believe in the guy and as i said he has been more than generous with his time and advice)

/s/ Dave

[Emibass]

If you can afford the LA-610....go for it...it´s a wonderfull and reliable piece of channel strip...and it sounds just superb. Even the slap sound great...
the eq section is simple and work perfect, the cut is passive while the boost is active (actually, passive boost doesn´t exist), the comp I use it to tame few db.

I tried different types of channel strips in the studio (Amek pure path, Avalon sp737, Focusrite 430, Joemeek, SSL) but this one for bass is just killer for me

[BassmanPaul]

Originally Posted by Jim Carr

I like the TBP-1, and the Demeter. I also like both BBE units, the tube and FET models.
If you can find one of these, give it a try (ART model 259 channel strip): basstasters.com || welcome

I love mine. Great most flexible EQ ever, warm, and nice tube-like compressor. They are discontinued, but come up used on TB now and then—usually cheap.

I have to agree with Jim on this pre-amp. I used this one for a few years until it was replaced with one of my own designs.

[Lo-E]

While I agree that the LA-610 is a wonderful channel strip and sounds amazing for recording, you may find that in a live, full band situation you're going to want a slightly more flexible EQ.

It's been my experience that, while it's nice to sound incredible in the studio, in live situations sometimes it just comes down to being able to hear yourself. Having a flexible EQ makes it easier to strike a balance between getting that wonderful sound that you have in your head and being heard. It's not absolutely required, but it makes it easier.

Great sounds in the studio don't always cut through the mix when you need them to and the LA-610 has little in the way of mid-tone control, which is right where you need it live.

That said, the LA-610 is a fantastic piece of gear and I love it in the studio. If you feel you can make it work in a live mix, by all means go for it!