I can't make up my mind... will you?

MichaelSmalley · #1 08-26-2010, 12:15 AM

OK, for a few week now I've been posting threads and asking questions about different rigs. Please bear with me. I've always gigged with combo amps, but it's time to upgrade. I asked and learned a TON about power amps, Ohms, watts, volts, bridges, and other things I never thought I would be interested in when I started playing bass 9 years ago. The problem is that I can't seem to make a final decision.

Here are the 3 finalists:

1)Hartke LH1000 + Hydrive 410 cab. (Pros: low cost, nice clean sound, simple, and the cab doesn't weigh that much, Hartke's INSANE customer service. Cons: the amp seems to have relatively limited tonal options- eg 3-band eq and a brite switch, I wish the cab were 4-ohm so I could get the most power out of the head)

2)Used SWR SM-900 + Goliath III cab. (Pros: I could get the whole thing for $1100 used, not much more than the above mentioned Hartke, I like the SWR sound. Cons: Less wattage than the Hartke [does that always mean less volume or punch?], It's used so there is only a 30 day warranty, again 8-ohm cab not ideal)

3) SWR m2 preamp, poweramp (maybe Crown XLS 1500), and Hydrive 410 cab. (Pros: Lots of tonal options with this preamp, love the sound of the Pre and cab, good compressor. Cons: More complicated rig, the most expensive rig of the 3 [looking at around $1700 or maybe a little more I think].)

Any thoughts? Words of wisdom? Cautionary tales about any of this gear? Sorry about the length of the post- I'm just trying to make sure I don't drop lots of money and then become filled with regret because I didn't think things through.

::::BASSIST:::: · #2 08-26-2010, 12:35 AM

Go for #1 and add a tone shaping pedal like the Tech 21 VT Bass. They're little more than $100 and make a HUGE tonal impact in a very good way. Simply adding a pedal like this will make a tremendous difference in tone and tone shaping ability.

If you are not thrilled about the Hydrive cab only being 8 ohm, look at different cabs. The SWR Golite 410 is 55LBS I believe and 4 ohms.

Also

Avatar neo 410 65lb about $500 shipped
Epifunky 410 59lbs about $500
Carvin 410N 65lbs $480 shipped

JimmyM · #3 08-26-2010, 12:49 AM

don't worry so much about squeezing every last watt out of your head. wattage doesn't matter nearly as much as speaker area. also, don't be tricked by what you call "limited eq." sometimes those limited eq's are totally what's needed, and the more deluxe eq's can lead you down a rabbit hole.

anyway, out of those rigs, i'd probably go hartke because i think the hydrives are fantastic cabs, but they're all great rigs.

xjeremiahx · #4 08-26-2010, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

also, don't be tricked by what you call "limited eq." sometimes those limited eq's are totally what's needed, and the more deluxe eq's can lead you down a rabbit hole.

anyway, out of those rigs, i'd probably go hartke because i think the hydrives are fantastic cabs, but they're all great rigs.

Truth. I currently reside in said rabbit hole.
Truth. That new stuff from hartke is realllllllllllllllllllllllllllllly sweet.

msquared · #5 08-26-2010, 12:58 AM

Out of those three, the SM900 is the only head I've dealt with beyond the showroom floor. It was my main amp for several years and I have also had the luxury of hearing it as a drummer and out in the crowd (they were very popular amps at one time - it seems like they were everywhere) and despite the drubbing SWR seems to get on here I would totally approve of it as a step up from a combo rig.

One thing I really loved about that amp was the switchable pair of parametric EQs. That particular feature made it really easy to learn a whole lot about how to use an EQ in a live setting. Since I was able to do so much easy A/Bing I feel like I got some fantastic tones out of my rigs that I may have not been able to otherwise.

If you get one, I suggest spending the $20 or whatever on a new preamp tube.

Don't be afraid to mix cabinets with any of these rigs. There's no reason to lock yourself into an 8ohm cab just to stick with the brand. My favorite cabinet with my SM900 was a Bergantino NV610.

Captain Marvel · #6 08-26-2010, 01:05 AM

I'd go Hartke too. The LH1000 simple front panel is not as limiting as it first appears and its simplicity makes it a great base for adding tone kings like the much loved VT bass pedal. With the Hydrive it will sound great and you'll get good volume levels, you can always add a second 410 if the need for more volume arrises but you won't really NEED to do that unless your playing on larger stages. A great value set-up.

HitByABlimp · #7 08-26-2010, 01:24 AM

Numero Uno

If it's good enough for Victor Wooten...

Don't worry about the EQ. I don't like to define tone with extensive EQ-ing. It should be used for dialing out some boom or adding some punch in different venues. There are tons of other pedals, pre-amps and processors that do a much better job at altering your tone the way you like.
And the LH1000 does 750 watt @ 8ohms! I'll bet you'll never turn it even half way up. You'll have headroom to spare.

dukeisdog · #8 08-26-2010, 02:37 AM

I love the Hartke Hydrive series, just know before you buy the head and cab that they are a little quiet for their 1000 watt ratings, and a lot of people would agree with that. They sound great, though. And you could always add a second cab anyway.

MichaelSmalley · #9 08-26-2010, 11:32 AM

Thanks for the advice- I appreciate it.

I have a friend who manages a local music store and he let me take the LH1000 out for a gig to see how I liked it. I did like it, but I expected a 1000 watter to be much louder than it was. I don't know if that was just my ignorance of these sorts of rigs- that was sort of why I thought about getting a 4 ohm cab. The thing is that I really love the hydrive cab- a nice combination of clean/bright/warm/punch... Realistically I think the Hydrive 8 ohm cab will be plenty for the types of gigs I do.

::::::BASSIST:::::::: Tell me more about the tone shaping qualties of that Tech (whatever it was) pedal.

Another question. Say I go out and buy the LH1000 today... Can I put the m2 preamp in front of the LH1000 later on if I want to? If I put my active bass into the preamp and then go into a regular bass head (like the LH1000) is that too much power going into the rig?

::::BASSIST:::: · #10 08-26-2010, 11:50 AM

Yes, you can do that. You just bypass the preamp amp of the LH1000 and go into its power amp.

VT Bass:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr8kdWpB3U4

cassanova · #11 08-26-2010, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelSmalley

2)Used SWR SM-900 + Goliath III cab. (Pros: I could get the whole thing for $1100 used, not much more than the above mentioned Hartke, I like the SWR sound. Cons: Less wattage than the Hartke [does that always mean less volume or punch?],

No, not always.

Cabinet efficiency plays a role in this. If the cab is inefficient then it won't be able to handle louder sound levels than an efficient one can.

EX: You can take a 500 watt head and run it through something like the Carvin RL410T and because of the Carvin's inefficiency the cab can't handle the louder volumes. But if you take the Hartke 2000 (200 watt) head and run it through the more efficient Eden XLT, the Hartke/Eden pair will sound louder because of the cab's efficiency.

MichaelSmalley · #12 08-26-2010, 02:00 PM

I just got home from the store. I am now the proud owner of an LH1000 and a Hydrive 410... and a boss chromatic tuner (My Line 6 amp had an onboard tuner, so I never needed one).

Thanks to all the TBers who've helped me out over the last few weeks while I agonized over the decision. To be honest, the "chase" was part of the fun.

Now I need/want a chorus pedal and a bass-wah. Any thoughts? or other stuff I didn't know I had to have?

SteveC · #13 08-26-2010, 02:32 PM

Congrats. I hope you like it.

Personally, I would never buy a head knowing I was going to bypass the pre and use it as a power amp, but that's me.

SWR doesn't get the respect it once did, but many people (you know who you are) used to use SWR and liked it. I know I did.

dukeisdog · #14 08-26-2010, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveC

Congrats. I hope you like it.

Personally, I would never buy a head knowing I was going to bypass the pre and use it as a power amp, but that's me.

SWR doesn't get the respect it once did, but many people (you know who you are) used to use SWR and liked it. I know I did.

Well it's not like the stack is extremely quiet, right? It's just a little over rated for the watts it puts out, that's all. The head and cab alone could be more then enough for what the OP needs, but the OP now has the option to use a seperate pre/power amp if needed.

MichaelSmalley · #15 08-26-2010, 10:10 PM

I'm not buying the head just for the poweramp inside it. I just wondered that if- somewhere down the line- I decide I must have the SWR m2 preamp, do I need to buy the poweramp too? But if I do end up going that route, I'll probably just get a used crown or something and not use the LH head.

JimmyM · #16 08-26-2010, 10:17 PM

ya, you'll have to have some sort of power amp with the m2.

**Ronny49** · #17 10-13-2010, 09:53 AM

I did see you purchased the Hartke... they're ok in my opinion, but I would never own their cabs.

I've owned them both and the Hartke is gone! The SWR SM-900 has a lot of punch! For me, I don't care WHO rips on my amp as long as *I* like it... that's really all that matters. You got to like/love your sound as that is what will make you want to play more. If you buy an amp cause some other guys like it, I can guarantee you will not be happy in the long run and will most likely be listing it for sale in search of another amp other guys like.

Tony Franklin and Bryan Beller plays SWR and I watched a lot of their videos before purchasing my used SM-900. Search them on YouTube. Great Sound!

T. Alan Smith · #18 10-13-2010, 10:00 AM

Congrats! #1 was my choice until I read your #3. Gotta tell ya- I would've gone with #3, pretty intriguing. But you certainly did no wrong with #1. Rock on!

Alex1984 · #19 10-13-2010, 10:09 AM

If you like the SWR sound, go SWR. The way it's voiced probably would make it a bit quieter, but that's got nothing to do with the 900W thing (100W difference at that level would probably be barely noticeably). More importantly though, it's got nothing to do with the amount of punch that you get.

I've used and loved SWR stuff, and still do, even after diving into the tube world. To me it's still got one of the best clean sounds and a tone that defines modern(ish) bass amps.

MichaelSmalley · #20 10-19-2010, 05:22 PM

I've had my Hartke rig (LH1000, Hydrive 410) for a couple months and I really do like it. It is surprisingly versatile- I do fine getting big fat hip hop sounds, punchy funk tones, bright slap, etc. And the rig is by far loud enough for me.

...I still want the M2 preamp though. And a new USA deluxe P-Bass. And a new carved upright. And a new PA. I have a bit of a problem here.