I have an SVT 3Pro..stick with Ampeg 4x10, or go fEARful?

[Toastfuzz]

So I've been reading up alot on TB about these fEARful cabs and how they're pretty much the epitome of clean, powerful bass... I am always looking for new projects to do with my dad (who is a carpenter by trade) and I know he'd get a kick out of making these.

I use an Ampeg SVT 3Pro amp, which is 450 watts at 4 ohms, or 275 watts at 8 ohms. Currently I have that running into an Ampeg Classic 4x10HE and Acoustic B410 to get down to 4 ohms and max power. Was considering replacing the Acoustic with an Ampeg 1x15, but the fEARfuls are catching my eye.

So I did do some homework on the fEARfuls, and it looks like they take ALOT of power, and at 8 ohms. I love the tone of my Ampeg hybrid (despite the haters) and with my cab stack I get all the volume I want, I'd rather not hear suggestions to dump my amp as resell value is half what I paid for it.

I'm visualizing a rig of either a 15/6 + 15 sub, or 12/6 + 12/6. I have no use for tweeters and was going to skip them. I miss the punch of the 15" in my old Peavey combo, but am not sure if the Ampeg SVT3Pro has enough juice to pump both 15" speakers. If that is the case, how do you think 2 fEARful 12/6'ers would stand up compared to my current 2 4x10's?

The Acoustic 4x10 is kinda lame and I'm ditching that regardless... so its between a fEARful 15/6 + 15, fEARful 12/6 + 12/6, or Ampeg 4x10HE + Ampeg 1x15. I'd expect the fEARfuls to sound clearer, but not sure if I'd have as much headroom as with the Ampeg cab rig. Thoughts?

[JimmyM]

I've done the 410HE/115E combo before and I always end up unplugging the 115E. I don't think they sound good together at all, and the idea that they complement each other is based entirely on looks. Two 410HE's would be cool, though, and get you everything you're looking for by adding a 115.

But I'll tell ya...the fEarful stuff is quite nice and a 15/6 will do volume-wise what a 410 does, plus it will have wider dispersion of highs and mids. I love a good 810 rig, but I would also like a fEarful rig or similar as well.

[Toastfuzz]

Thanks for the advice Jimmy... I guess you'd be the de-facto source on the Ampeg stuff, I'll save my cash if they dont have a good mix. The thing is I have this Acoustic B410, while its not a terrible cab, theres nothing special about it either and it doesnt mix terribly well with the Ampeg classic. I was always confused on Ampeg HE's, for awhile I was in a thrash band and just used the single 8 ohm HE and it had plenty low end even with low power and nothing else. However Ampeg markets them as being extra trebly, to "brighten up" a low-heavy rig. Kinda for that reason alone I am considering selling both of them off and going fEARfuls. I figured a 15/6 would be pretty equivilent to a 4x10, just wants sure about how they'd handle the lower wattage. If I go fEARful, I think it'd be a 15/6 on top of a 15 sub, just thinking of those 15's pulsating is giving me a chub...

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Toastfuzz

Thanks for the advice Jimmy... I guess you'd be the de-facto source on the Ampeg stuff, I'll save my cash if they dont have a good mix. The thing is I have this Acoustic B410, while its not a terrible cab, theres nothing special about it either and it doesnt mix terribly well with the Ampeg classic. I was always confused on Ampeg HE's, for awhile I was in a thrash band and just used the single 8 ohm HE and it had plenty low end even with low power and nothing else. However Ampeg markets them as being extra trebly, to "brighten up" a low-heavy rig. Kinda for that reason alone I am considering selling both of them off and going fEARfuls. I figured a 15/6 would be pretty equivilent to a 4x10, just wants sure about how they'd handle the lower wattage. If I go fEARful, I think it'd be a 15/6 on top of a 15 sub, just thinking of those 15's pulsating is giving me a chub...

Hard not to get a chub thinking about it I think that would be a really good way to go, and a 3 Pro would power it fine IMHO.

As for the Ampeg cab, I grew up with Ampeg sealed 810's, and I don't think the 810E's or 410HE's function is so much as to brighten up a low heavy rig as it is to just cut out some of the lows that can create mud in a mix. I'm a firm believer in matching cabs when making stacks because of exactly the problem you're having using the Acoustic with it...mixing different cabs CAN work but the results are unpredictable. while using matching cabs always works. Greenboy designed the 15/6 and 15/sub to work together perfectly, so that's an exception to the non-matching cab rule.

So whether you get a second 410HE or a fEarful 15/6 + 15 sub, you will have an improved rig.

[SteveL54]

Originally Posted by Toastfuzz

Thanks for the advice Jimmy... I guess you'd be the de-facto source on the Ampeg stuff, I'll save my cash if they dont have a good mix. The thing is I have this Acoustic B410, while its not a terrible cab, theres nothing special about it either and it doesnt mix terribly well with the Ampeg classic. I was always confused on Ampeg HE's, for awhile I was in a thrash band and just used the single 8 ohm HE and it had plenty low end even with low power and nothing else. However Ampeg markets them as being extra trebly, to "brighten up" a low-heavy rig. Kinda for that reason alone I am considering selling both of them off and going fEARfuls. I figured a 15/6 would be pretty equivilent to a 4x10, just wants sure about how they'd handle the lower wattage. If I go fEARful, I think it'd be a 15/6 on top of a 15 sub, just thinking of those 15's pulsating is giving me a chub...

Good idea to dump the Acoustic 410 cab. I played the B410 cab and the B600H head for just over a year. That cab is just flat. It has no voice, no character. No life to it. I got a good deal on a lightly used Ampeg SVT 410HLF, and the Acoustic head just came to life. But, due to the ongoing quest for that elusive tone none of us can seem to find, I sold the Acoustic head (and cab that was just collecting dust) and ordered a GK 700 RBII head. I received it today, and it's making me crazy here in work waiting for rehearsal tonight, and my first gig with it Saturday night. I plan on staying married to the Ampeg for a good long while.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by Toastfuzz

I use an Ampeg SVT 3Pro amp, which is 450 watts at 4 ohms, or 275 watts at 8 ohms.

That's not enough power to make it with the 3012LF/3015LF drivers. The higher sensitivity of the 3012HO/3015 will work better, and they still have enough displacement to take all the output power you have available. I have no idea if the fEarful has 3012HO/3015 options available.

[rpsands]

It does not. Enclosures are not properly tuned/sized and the crossovers are not going to work either (they're highly tailored to the woofers they're designed for).

I know a few guys out there have 3015 (non-LF) and 6nd410 cabs, and there's a lot of good reason to do it that way.

With the SVT3 Pro, a 15sub + 15/6 is a good bet. It's a good match for the midrange driver's power handling without a pad and the 3015LF's can take all the power even with obscene bass boost that's inherent to most ampeg preamps.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

That's not enough power to make it with the 3012LF/3015LF drivers. The higher sensitivity of the 3012HO/3015 will work better, and they still have enough displacement to take all the output power you have available. I have no idea if the fEarful has 3012HO/3015 options available.

Bill, a while back, I tried that prototype of one of Duke's cabs loaded with two 3012LF's, hooked up an SVT to it, and honestly, I don't think it was any less quiet than the 810 at the same volume settings. Maybe a little, but it wasn't very noticeable. Now if 300w could kick two 3012LF's in the butt, I don't get why a 3 Pro couldn't.

[rpsands]

It'd be fine with a 4 ohm load. I wouldn't count on it being loud enough for a rock band with an 8 ohm fEarful.

Problem I have with the SVT3 pro is it just has a quiet tone profile. Just doesn't sound like other amps at its rated wattage.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by rpsands

It'd be fine with a 4 ohm load. I wouldn't count on it being loud enough for a rock band with an 8 ohm fEarful.

Problem I have with the SVT3 pro is it just has a quiet tone profile. Just doesn't sound like other amps at its rated wattage.

IOnce again, I totally disagree with that. I owned one and it was plenty loud. You just have to crank the gain hgiher than you would think by looking at the input light and thinking it's a clip light. Use your ears and not the light, and boom...there's its power!

[rodl2005]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

IOnce again, I totally disagree with that. I owned one and it was plenty loud. You just have to crank the gain hgiher than you would think by looking at the input light and thinking it's a clip light. Use your ears and not the light, and boom...there's its power!

Exactly! And theres the graphic eq's level slider. That alone gives ya heaps more vol.-simply leave the eq freq sliders flat (unless you want to change eq) & push up the level one. = lots more vol on tap

[rpsands]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

IOnce again, I totally disagree with that. I owned one and it was plenty loud. You just have to crank the gain hgiher than you would think by looking at the input light and thinking it's a clip light. Use your ears and not the light, and boom...there's its power!

Heh, have you lots of experience playing a ~300 watt head with a 15/6? I do, and I wouldn't count on it being loud enough for every rock band.

Regarding the SVT-3 -- I've owned a bunch of Ampeg heads (Svt-400T, B2R, B2RE) and played the SVT-3 a bunch. They just didn't feel as loud as say, an equivalent GK. Different strokes I guess.

The EA Iamp I owned for a while had a little bit of input knobbitis so I'm familiar with that phenomenon.

My recollection of the SVT-3 is that you can turn the input gain up for more volume but it gets too crunchy for me. Been a while though. I had this problem with the Shuttle series of amps too - 6 and 9 both - that to get the volume I wanted I had to use too much tube dirt.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by rpsands

Heh, have you lots of experience playing a ~300 watt head with a 15/6? I do, and I wouldn't count on it being loud enough for every rock band.

He's not talking about just a 15/6...he's also talking about a 15 sub along with it. You don't think that would make a difference?

My recollection of the SVT-3 is that you can turn the input gain up for more volume but it gets too crunchy for me. Been a while though. I had this problem with the Shuttle series of amps too - 6 and 9 both - that to get the volume I wanted I had to use too much tube dirt.

Funny...I tried the Shuttle 6 with an off the rack AmStd Precision and I couldn't get any distortion at all! Occasionally I'll get a 3 Pro or 4 Pro supplied on a gig that has problems getting any distortion going, too. But most of them I've played start breaking up the gain past 3:00 and no sooner. Of course, that all is dependent on how hot your bass input signal is.

Anyway, that's why they make different amps out there...if every amp pleased everyone, there'd only be one amp on the market.

[Foz]

I owned a SVT 3Pro and a dual 4x10he stack during my transition to fEARfuls - all that ampeg gear is now sold.

The fEARful stack you propose will rock your world - and the 3Pro will push it to pretty high output if you crank the pregain and the graphic EQ and the master. The sensitivity of the fEARful stack is quite good and its capability across the bandwidth is awesome [low lows? you got em if you want em - crank the bass knob till it hurts]. If the 3Pro [or any 275 watt amp for that matter] is loud enough for you with dual 4x10's then it will more than adequate with a dual 15 fEARful stack.

That said if you go fEARful stack you should try slapping a PA amp on top and using the 3Pro as a pre just to see what all the stack can do with full power. If you do this, I predict you will end up with a pre/power amp rack on your rig in the near future. Using a fEARful stack with PA amp in the 2k watt into 4 ohm range you can explore a whole different level of big sound. You don't need this much amp but it is the no-brainer way to use the stack - get a pre that gives you the tone you want and set levels such that you hit the amp with a signal strength that can't clip not matter how hard you spank the plank... then use an amp with double the speaker rating [thus the 2k watt rating suggested] to give yourself some headroom. Set the power amp volume knob to match the needs of the gig. Works every time.

As a side note - with the benefit of hindsight I wish I had kept the 3Pro - once I got the bias adjusted it was a nice bit of kit and would be handy for when I want a light weight medium volume rig.

[lomo]

Another option is an Avatar TB153-nEarful single box with a 4 Ohm driver. 450 watts will drive it well.

[chunkstyle]

Another option us the 1212/6 fEarful. You can probably get away with a little less power for that rig while still getting the fEarful experience. Don't get hung up on 12s or 15s. The entire range of fEarfuls was designed to offer similar performance in different shapes and sizes and power handling.

[Toastfuzz]

Wow thanks for all the feedback guys, wish I was around to participate.

Heh, have you lots of experience playing a ~300 watt head with a 15/6? I do, and I wouldn't count on it being loud enough for every rock band.

I fully agree with you. In that setting I'll have both 15" cabs and run 450 watts at 4 ohms.

If the 3Pro [or any 275 watt amp for that matter] is loud enough for you with dual 4x10's then it will more than adequate with a dual 15 fEARful stack.

I think this is what I needed to inspire me. My amp right now with the dual 4x10's can pump out some serious sound, so the tone coming from the fEARful 15's should be perfect. I wanted to convert over to a 15's rig anyway, and then the fEARful superthread dropped in my lap.

Problem I have with the SVT3 pro is it just has a quiet tone profile. Just doesn't sound like other amps at its rated wattage.

Not sure what you mean by this, but to each his own

Another option us the 1212/6 fEarful. You can probably get away with a little less power for that rig while still getting the fEarful experience. Don't get hung up on 12s or 15s. The entire range of fEarfuls was designed to offer similar performance in different shapes and sizes and power handling.

I really dig the idea of the 15/6 + 15 sub. I like the flexibility to bring just the 15/6 if I'm jammin around or dont need alot of volume, but tagging on another 15 sub when I need to pump up the juice. I couldnt think of a set with 12s that satisfied really what I was going for with this.

Occasionally I'll get a 3 Pro or 4 Pro supplied on a gig that has problems getting any distortion going, too.

Jimmy, I know you know that this is what the VT Bass was invented for

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Toastfuzz

Jimmy, I know you know that this is what the VT Bass was invented for

Of course! And it's only happened on a couple occasions anyway. Most of the time you can get a goodly amount of grind past 3:00. Not a big concern of mine, quite honestly.

[Toastfuzz]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Of course! And it's only happened on a couple occasions anyway. Most of the time you can get a goodly amount of grind past 3:00. Not a big concern of mine, quite honestly.

Obviously that little box is a crazily appreciated tool among the TB community, and I think for good reason.

Since I got the VT, I find myself shaping my tone through it more and more, and messing with my bass / amp less and less. My amp is pretty much set to Ampeg standard... lows and low mids boosted slightly, treble slightly cut, but I love that Bright switch (with no tweeters!!! ) to add crystal clear spank. My bass is set flat, and I drop the treble on the fly when I need to go deep. But when I show up to a gig and start soundchecking, the only thing I mess with is the Character knob on the VT to get the appropriate amount of grind/clank for the room.

I keep the Drive down lower than Character, if I want "drive" I kick on my Black Russian Muff, and it feeds the VT all the distortion it needs. Such a good pedal, I've never bought a pedal before that actually makes other pedals better (was about to ditch the Muff until I experienced it driving into the VT)