I have these two 2510 II's laying around...

[Emprov]

In the spirit of fEarful, nEarful, the Coffeehouse 110 and other DIY threads, I'm after a bit of assistance here. I bought two 2510 II's a while back in anticipation of building an Omni 10 but, after doing some experimenting with a 10.5, they seem to be too midrangy for my tastes -- I'm after something with a bit more low end. I'm a Mac user though so, unfortunately, I don't have WinISD at my fingertips. Has anyone built a 210 cab using 2510 II's that you're completely in love with and some plans you wouldn't mind sharing?

[zac2944]

Originally Posted by Emprov

In the spirit of fEarful, nEarful, the Coffeehouse 110 and other DIY threads, I'm after a bit of assistance here. I bought two 2510 II's a while back in anticipation of building an Omni 10 but, after doing some experimenting with a 10.5, they seem to be too midrangy for my tastes -- I'm after something with a bit more low end. I'm a Mac user though so, unfortunately, I don't have WinISD at my fingertips. Has anyone built a 210 cab using 2510 II's that you're completely in love with and some plans you wouldn't mind sharing?

I did a composite 210 a while back. Weighs about 20lbs and is a blast for my small to medium sized gigs. All the details are in a build thread I posted and if I wasn't on a iPhone I'd dig up a link for ya. Should be easy to search for (composite diy).

I'm a fan of the 2510s and find their low end very satisfying. I'm sure others will chime in as well.

[Sundogue]

Originally Posted by Emprov

In the spirit of fEarful, nEarful, the Coffeehouse 110 and other DIY threads, I'm after a bit of assistance here. I bought two 2510 II's a while back in anticipation of building an Omni 10 but, after doing some experimenting with a 10.5, they seem to be too midrangy for my tastes -- I'm after something with a bit more low end. I'm a Mac user though so, unfortunately, I don't have WinISD at my fingertips. Has anyone built a 210 cab using 2510 II's that you're completely in love with and some plans you wouldn't mind sharing?

Never used that speaker, but here's a link to Eminence's cab suggestions...

http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/290-591c.pdf

[Emprov]

Originally Posted by zac2944

I did a composite 210 a while back. Weighs about 20lbs and is a blast for my small to medium sized gigs. All the details are in a build thread I posted and if I wasn't on a iPhone I'd dig up a link for ya. Should be easy to search for (composite diy).

I'm a fan of the 2510s and find their low end very satisfying. I'm sure others will chime in as well.

Cool, thanks! I'll check it out.

Originally Posted by Sundogue

Never used that speaker, but here's a link to Eminence's cab suggestions...

http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/290-591c.pdf

That was actually the first place that I went. I was a little concerned though as the "medium 210" bass cab suggested a maximum of 200w. The small allowed up to 500 but the low end drop off happens above 100hz. BTW, the drivers are 8ohm so this will be a 4ohm cab.

[GrowlerBox]

The BFM Jack 10 has a slightly better low-end response than the Omni 10.5, but has even more output in the mids. I've found my Jack 12 very responsive to small changes in EQ to dampen this down a bit -- my head has 4 semi-parametric EQ bands which makes this a little easier than for some, of course. Jacks are very loud for their size, and therefore you don't suffer much volume loss from dialling down a little of the admittedly heavy mid-sensitivity. Two of them loaded with those speakers would make a fine rig; you could check out Sundogue's rig (not BFM) for some ideas both concerning the cabinets themselves, but also his ingenious modular system for "racking" them all together.

[Emprov]

Originally Posted by GrowlerBox

...you could check out Sundogue's rig (not BFM) for some ideas both concerning the cabinets themselves, but also his ingenious modular system for "racking" them all together.

I really dig that rig and I'd love to do something along those lines but he's not using 2510's so I'm wondering if the needs of his drivers and mine would be too different. This is one of those times when being a Mac user frustrates me.

[GrowlerBox]

Originally Posted by Emprov

I really dig that rig and I'd love to do something along those lines but he's not using 2510's so I'm wondering if the needs of his drivers and mine would be too different. This is one of those times when being a Mac user frustrates me.

Someone in another thread mentioned a Java-based online tool that did essentially what WinISP does, in response to an equally frustrated Mac user (I'm a Mac user, but not frustrated -- to me the pros far outweigh the cons having been in both camps). Worth a search, unless someone reading this knows more precisely what I'm talking about.

[fdeck]

Mac users might want to check out my speaker design spreadsheet, which I've made available in both Excel and Open Office format at my little website. I've also got a version for the math tool WxMaxima.

Open Office version here: http://personalpages.tds.net/~fdeck/bass/speaker.ods

It contains macros, so you may have to adjust your Open Office security settings. Note that my program hasn't been widely vetted by speaker experts, so it's definitely a "use at your own risk" thing, but all of the math is open and documented.

I don't have a Mac to test this on, so if anybody tries it out on a Mac, please let me know if it works.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by Emprov

Cool, thanks! I'll check it out.


That was actually the first place that I went. I was a little concerned though as the "medium 210" bass cab suggested a maximum of 200w.

Almost all drivers have displacement limits well below their thermal ratings. The 2510 is actually better than most in that respect.

[BassmanPaul]

Originally Posted by Emprov

I'm a Mac user though so, unfortunately, I don't have WinISD at my fingertips.

Of course you do!!! Run it in a Safari window right from the site. You can also use Virtual PC or Parallels. If you have an Intel Mac, like my MacBook Pro, you can run the dreaded Windows natively.

[Sundogue]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Almost all drivers have displacement limits well below their thermal ratings. The 2510 is actually better than most in that respect.

Big ol' +1.

You can pretty much stop looking at the wattage on a speaker. Pay attention to the displacement limitation...which is the REAL usable wattage.

Anything above that is just wasted energy and once the speaker in the cab reaches it's displacement limitation it won't get any louder but you can still blow it. Melting a voice coil is different than having a speaker exceed its physical limitation of movement. You are more likely to blow a speaker long before you melt the voice coil.

Also, keep in mind that while this limitation may seem like a very small amount of watts, you'd be surprised just how few watts a bass cab really needs to be heard well. That's more a matter of speaker sensitivity and the efficiency of the cab itself.

[Emprov]

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

Of course you do!!! Run it in a Safari window right from the site. You can also use Virtual PC or Parallels. If you have an Intel Mac, like my MacBook Pro, you can run the dreaded Windows natively.

I'm actually ex-Apple and still know plenty of Apple white badgers. I'm also cheap and I'd rather not go out and drop the cash on Parallels or VPC just to build the occasional speaker. Were I really into it, then I'd probably do it but, seeing as how there are so many good home speaker plans on the internet....I'm cheap, what can I say?

I'll have to check out the Safari option though, thanks!

Originally Posted by Sundogue

Big ol' +1.

You can pretty much stop looking at the wattage on a speaker. Pay attention to the displacement limitation...which is the REAL usable wattage.

Anything above that is just wasted energy and once the speaker in the cab reaches it's displacement limitation it won't get any louder but you can still blow it. Melting a voice coil is different than having a speaker exceed its physical limitation of movement. You are more likely to blow a speaker long before you melt the voice coil.

So why would the larger box allow for lower of wattage? Keep in mind that I know next to nothing about this but, I would have thought that, all other things being equal, a larger box would allow for more wattage.

[Sundogue]

Originally Posted by Emprov

So why would the larger box allow for lower of wattage? Keep in mind that I know next to nothing about this but, I would have thought that, all other things being equal, a larger box would allow for more wattage.

A larger box equates to lower extension. Low end frequencies are harder on speakers, so while you can get lower tunings and more low end out of a larger box, it also means a lower wattage limitation. A smaller box puts out more lo-mids/upper bass and less deep low end.

But it depends on the cab's tuning as well as the speaker itself in determining that.

[Emprov]

Originally Posted by Sundogue

A larger box equates to lower extension. Low end frequencies are harder on speakers, so while you can get lower tunings and more low end out of a larger box, it also means a lower wattage limitation. A smaller box puts out more lo-mids/upper bass and less deep low end.

But it depends on the cab's tuning as well as the speaker itself in determining that.

Ah, that makes sense.

Another question: the Eminence Med Vented Box calls for a high-pass filter set to 40 Hz, how would I go about figuring out the particulars (components, values, etc...) of the x-over?

[thudfromafar]

Originally Posted by Emprov

Ah, that makes sense.

Another question: the Eminence Med Vented Box calls for a high-pass filter set to 40 Hz, how would I go about figuring out the particulars (components, values, etc...) of the x-over?

From what I've gathered, you don't make passive HPF's in the bass region. That would be really huge and expensive. Rather, you put something in your signal chain, like a DSP, pedal, or whatever. Btw, most bass amps have built-in HPF's of varying degrees. Just usually not optimal ones.

[Sundogue]

Originally Posted by Emprov

Ah, that makes sense.

Another question: the Eminence Med Vented Box calls for a high-pass filter set to 40 Hz, how would I go about figuring out the particulars (components, values, etc...) of the x-over?

You are better off with something like a graphic EQ pedal, or a rack mount one used for PA's and just cutting everything below 40Hz. You can also just cut some of the low end on any bass amp (with whatever tonal controls are available) and use your volume knob carefully.

I always put my cabs through their paces at home by myself to see just how much they can handle with any given amp...listening for distortion or fart-out. It's far easier to hear what the max volume level is (for any given tonal preference) without other instruments playing.

I either write my settings down or mark it on the amp with some tape, so when I'm on a gig I already know how far I can push my amp. That way, no matter how loud any given gig is, I'll never exceed the marked max settings. If it ain't enough volume, I'll just live with it and bring more speakers/different cabs to the next gig.

[Emprov]

Got it, thanks guys. Since I'm on a roll when it comes to displaying my ignorance about this stuff, I might as well take it one step further. The Eminence 2510 sheet suggests 1 cu ft vented box for a single driver. I've built one and it sounds fantastic but, obviously, it's not exactly the loudest cab in my arsenal. For two drivers, a 3cu ft vented box is suggested. Here's the question (which may or may not be able to be answered): would I get more perceived loudness out of two 1cu ft boxes or a single 3cu ft box?

[Sundogue]

Originally Posted by Emprov

Got it, thanks guys. Since I'm on a roll when it comes to displaying my ignorance about this stuff, I might as well take it one step further. The Eminence 2510 sheet suggests 1 cu ft vented box for a single driver. I've built one and it sounds fantastic but, obviously, it's not exactly the loudest cab in my arsenal. For two drivers, a 3cu ft vented box is suggested. Here's the question (which may or may not be able to be answered): would I get more perceived loudness out of two 1cu ft boxes or a single 3cu ft box?

You'll still be using two speakers so the perceived loudness should be moot.

However, the 3 cu. ft. cab is more than twice the internal volume of two 1 cu. ft. cabs, so it should go deeper. Unless you built two 1.5 cu. ft. 110 cabs.

[fdeck]

Cab volume is figured on a per-driver basis, so the 2x10 is designed to have a different sound than the 1x10.

[will33]

Couple things to note.

A. Eminence cab designs call for a HPF in every design to protect against unloading the speaker below the tuning frequency....maybe not bad idea but...

B. I have played many speakers in many cabs both with filtered all-in-one "bassheads" as well as with tube heads and and unfiltered pre/pwr rack rigs and have never blown a woofer so I wouldn't worry too much about that.

The deltaliteII wants a little bit bigger box to go deep as compared to some other woofers but it can handle it and luckily, you don't have to get super deep to end up with a good sounding 210 that doesn't sound like it needs something under it to add more depth (4ohm, one cab does it all thing). Somewhere along the lines of 1-1/4 to 1-1/3cu.ft. per driver +/- seems to work fine.

Oddly enough, this ends up being something that's just tall enough to get the speakers vertical (the right way), and just wide enough and deep enough to "look right/work right" with a rack or rackwidth head sitting on top of it, adjust depth to suit internal volume needs. The extra space in the baffle makes easy work of putting in needed port area/tweeter(s) or whatever.

If you're still unsure of what to do with them, send them to me and I'll do something with them. Otherwise, look up the layout and general size of the zaclite and build the same thing out of well braced 1/2" plywood.