I Just Played Through a Avalon U5 Pre!!! OMG...Question About Using it with a IP112

[funkyfretless]

huy guys,
i just played on an avalon u5 this morning at one of my friends church. i was just going direct into this unit and it is amazing.

i have read that it is a good pre, but its got a lot of contraversy about it being a good pre only for live gigs.

i am going to be getting a ip112 and i am seriously considering running this pre into the ip.

heres the service so you can get an idea of what im looking for. i am running a us joe with labella flats into the avalon.

“Unless You Tell Them, They Will Not Know” | The Church of The Apostles

ip players with the avalon u5 or avalon with a power amp users, do you get this tone live..?

thanks,
evan

[nutdog]

I can't answer your question but that is a great tone and great playing. Love Youssef on the radio. I'm just up 75 and would like to visit, but I'm pretty committed on Sunday mornings.

Great mix. Does it sound that good in the building?

[GrooveWarrior]

Originally Posted by funkyfretless

huy guys,
i just played on an avalon u5 this morning at one of my friends church. i was just going direct into this unit and it is amazing.

i have read that it is a good pre, but its got a lot of contraversy about it being a good pre only for live gigs.

i am going to be getting a ip112 and i am seriously considering running this pre into the ip.

heres the service so you can get an idea of what im looking for. i am running a us joe with labella flats into the avalon.

“Unless You Tell Them, They Will Not Know” | The Church of The Apostles

ip players with the avalon u5 or avalon with a power amp users, do you get this tone live..?

thanks,
evan

I would ask TomBowlus here on TB. He has probably tried this setup.

[seedokebass]

Love your tone on that!

I used to run a U5 live, but through a Markbass SD800. I think that tone is very do-able with the U5 into a power amp. The first four tone presets should help, but you might be able to get there with the presets off.

I have no personal experience with the IP's, but I would assume it's a good match!

[Sheldon681]

Can't offer any advice but I would like to complement your playing and that of the entire group. Outstanding!

[eekmeg]

First off, that bass tone fits in that mix like chocolate with peanut butter. Your playing is very tasty as well. I run a U5 through an IP. When I had flats on my jazz bass, I had no trouble getting very close to that tone.
+1 to asking Mr. Bowlus.

[funkyfretless]

ive read that he along with others, dont think its a good match with the ip(looses its assets)... i have heard however that with a power amp it does retain its character.

[Low Class]

Originally Posted by funkyfretless

ive read that he along with others, dont think its a good match with the ip(looses its assets)... i have heard however that with a power amp it does retain its character.

Problem with the IP is you're not just running into a power amp, but also a DSP. Every preamp I tried with the IP I felt like I was EQing against the DSP and made it difficult to dial in. There are also some signai input issues with the IP.

[chadds]

Hey there.
The Avalon is a great DI. As a pre, to me it falls short. My experience is that it's presets into the IP can sound artificial. Yes that DSP allows the huge volume, and wide frequency response out of those cabs. No fault to either I found them to not be a good match.
If you want that limited eq set but want huge warm tone, the Summit TD-100 is way smaller and cheaper.

I tried every thing with an XLR output on it when I got an IP. Well the pain ended when I started using real bass preamps.
There are no issues with an Alembic, Demeter, Kern, Glock, or Monique. Dedicated bass pres.

[burk48237]

Originally Posted by chadds

Hey there.
The Avalon is a great DI. As a pre, to me it falls short. My experience is that it's presets into the IP can sound artificial. Yes that DSP allows the huge volume, and wide frequency response out of those cabs. No fault to either I found them to not be a good match.
If you want that limited tonal set but want huge warm tone, the Summit TD-100 is way smaller and cheaper.

I tried every thing with an XLR output on it when I got an IP. Well the pain ended when I started using real bass preamps.
There are no issues with an Alembic, Demeter, Kern, Glock, or Monique. Dedicated bass pres.

I'm not sure they sound artificial ( I ran a U5 for a couple of years) but they can sound a bit too clean at times. Your right about other true bass pres being better, I'd add the Avalon VT 737 and the Millennium to that list. My beef with the U5 is that they don't have enough EQ capability to deal with bad room acoustics. Plus it's a terribly un-roadfriendly package (bigger than many amps) with no thru 1/4" plug on the back.

I have come to conclusion that the best amp/rig you can own is one that gets the tone you want with your bass in its "flat" setting. I put flat in quotes because no amp is truly flat. Then I use the EQ on the amp to deal with room issues. If the U5 gets that sound its fine but you'll still need an outboard EQ if you have to deal with a lot of different and sometimes poor room acoustics. That said the U5 is one of the best DI's on the market, right there with the Reddi and the UL 610.

[chadds]

Originally Posted by burk48237

I'm not sure they sound artificial ( I ran a U5 for a couple of years) but they can sound a bit too clean at times. Your right about other true bass pres being better, I'd add the Avalon VT 737 and the Millennium to that list. My beef with the U5 is that they don't have enough EQ capability to deal with bad room acoustics. Plus it's a terribly un-roadfriendly package (bigger than many amps) with no thru 1/4" plug on the back.

I have come to conclusion that the best amp/rig you can own is one that gets the tone you want with your bass in its "flat" setting. I put flat in quotes because no amp is truly flat. Then I use the EQ on the amp to deal with room issues. If the U5 gets that sound its fine but you'll still need an outboard EQ if you have to deal with a lot of different and sometimes poor room acoustics. That said the U5 is one of the best DI's on the market, right there with the Reddi and the UL 610.

I said into an IP the Avalon U5 can sound synthetic. As a DI it's glorious.
Being able to tame that bad room is why we have eq. even if we rarely use it. Trying to eq the room with your bass's eq is inappropriate. Imagine if you played violin and the soundman said he was going to change the sound of your violin to sculpt the eq of a bad room.

By the way Tom B. has published a pic of the many many many preamps he used on his IPs.

[Limeman]

Not to take this into a different direction... but maybe try a REDDI direct box into the IP? I can only imagine how good that might sound!

[funkyfretless]

i like the avalon tone. are there any users that use an avalon/power amp that can comment on its performance live.

[chadds]

Originally Posted by Limeman

Not to take this into a different direction... but maybe try a REDDI direct box into the IP? I can only imagine how good that might sound!

The Jules Monique thread has a good bit about the Reddi into an IP.

[JxBass]

Originally Posted by chadds

I tried every thing with an XLR output on it when I got an IP. Well the pain ended when I started using real bass preamps. There are no issues with an Alembic, Demeter, Kern, Glock, or Monique. Dedicated bass pres.

I had the same experience. I tried every recommended pre with my IP112ER without success. I wound up using the pre from a Genz Benz Shuttle 3.0 then, my favorite, a Markbass LMII.

[chadds]

Originally Posted by JxBass

I had the same experience. I tried every recommended pre with my IP112ER without success. I wound up using the pre from a Genz Benz Shuttle 3.0 then, my favorite, a Markbass LMII.

I said I tried everything with an XLR output. Kitchen sinks etc.

First the IPs instructions ask that you be conservative with the bass eq. Using your bass controls as we are used to yields a bad bad sound. I didn't like the IP the first two times I tried it because I had the lows boosted like I was used to doing, on bass or pre.

Second, I started with the Demeter DI. Great piece as a DI. The longer I played it in a session the quieter it would get. I called James Demeter. He said the way the DI is designed to drive long lines when it met the front of a power amp it would actually get quieter. He said just get an HPB-1 and I'd have no issues. I did and I had no issues. I had similar issues with a Joe Meek, the Raven Labs MDP, all pieces that work great into a mixing board pre.
It's about proper voltage. The IP wants to see .775v. Not an unusual requirement.

The Summit had too much output hence the Berg Mod. It would overdrive the input of the IP. Eric Papp President of Summit listened to my issues and over the phone with Jim Bergantino devised a fix.

It is stated in Jim's introduction of the IP that he designed it to use commonly available bass preamps. He stated that bassists had been having issues mating their Alembics etc to PA amps like Crowns, Phase Linears in years past.

[chadds]

To add to above, if you use a DI or pre or channel strip with no eq you may not be able to dial back the bass and avoid this obnoxious sound.

Using the effects out of an integrated head also yields mediocre results because of proprietary design parameters that mate that pre with its power amp.

An IP112 & EX112 rig (and the ER series) with the bass eq slightly dialed back really is a punchy monster with volume and lows you can't believe from something it's size.

.....and even though I'm a fan, every piece of gear isn't for everyone.

[dogbrained]

That's a very good band.

[KJung]

The U5 is GREAT when used for what it is designed for... recording into a board or sending a pure, wide, warm signal to a board running a front of house system.

Using it as a pre in a live setting... not so much. In the perfect mix in the perfect room, I'm sure it can sound wonderful. In more typical rooms with peaks and valleys and boom, etc., not so much, especially with the already big low end and smooth mids of the IP310.

[Session1969]

Originally Posted by KJung

The U5 is GREAT when used for what it is designed for... recording into a board or sending a pure, wide, warm signal to a board running a front of house system.

Using it as a pre in a live setting... not so much. In the perfect mix in the perfect room, I'm sure it can sound wonderful. In more typical rooms with peaks and valleys and boom, etc., not so much, especially with the already big low end and smooth mids of the IP310.

+1, the trick would be to be able to adjust your frequencies in different rooms with maybe a graphic. That way you could still get different tones from the controls on your bass. I do not like most power amp sections on heads since I've used Crest power amps. There's such a big difference in quality of sound. If you really want to use the Avalon, I'd check out a Crest CA-4 OR 6. I've had a CA-9 and 6. I bet even a CA-4 bridged would work fine. Used ones are very reasonable $300-500. I payed 300 for my ca-6 two months ago from GC used gear.