I may have three 410s and a 115 in my living room soon. Help me out.

Bjess002 · #1 01-27-2012, 08:25 AM

OK. I need some input on a few things. I did a couple searches and haven't got any good answers so I apologize if this has been covered.

First, I want to check the specs on the speakers used in GK RBH410s. Anyone have a link to the actual drivers in the cab? I want to see what db the real low frequencies are said to produce. This will be influencing my decision on buying the RBH and I couldn't find the info in the manual. Can anyone vouch for how she handles a low B?

I have an old Backline 410, also from GK, that I need to sell. But first I'd like to swap the blown driver. Is it ill advised to replace the speaker myself? I can send it to a shop for 80-100 bucks, but can probably handle it for around 50 on my own. I've been told I was crazy by a guitarist for considering it, though. Thoughts on DIY repair?

The third 410 in this equation is a brand new NEO from Avatar. However, I think they sent me one with a damaged driver. Which sucks. Dave said I need to take the one I think is creating the buzzing noise out of the cab and check to see if it is in fact ready for the toilet. I don't know how to do this. Is he referring to using an OHM meter to determine if it's blown? After I'm sure which speaker it is and what's wrong with it, does anyone know how Avatar honors their warranty? Am I going to have to pay to have the whole thing shipped back to them or will he just send me a replacement driver? This of course begs the DIY replacement question again.

Also selling a gk BL115, to even out the subject equation. Unrelated, but I'm stressed about my GAS tearing me (and my wallet) apart. I don't want to buy the RBH if it's going to suck it up, and I can't find anywhere that has one to try. I need to sell the backlines ASAP but would rather sell one with 4 working drivers. And I don't want to keep the Avatar if it's going to suck it up after I replace the driver. These are all questions I have.

Any/all input appreciated.

darius8 · #2 01-27-2012, 08:44 AM

Dude, you need G.A.S. intervention ASAP..

Well, maybe not , I've seen alot worse.

Bjess002 · #3 01-27-2012, 08:49 AM

Man it's the worst. On top of GAS I have an extreme case of buyer's remorse. I just want something that doesn't fart out on me =/

someparts · #4 01-27-2012, 08:52 AM

What amp are you running?

Bjess002 · #5 01-27-2012, 08:52 AM

GK 1001RB-ii

bassmeknik · #6 01-27-2012, 08:55 AM

Can you use a screw driver? Can you see? Open the cab with the damaged driver and look at it. There are probably 4 or 8 screws holding the driver in. WRITE DOWN WHICH WIRE WENT WHERE. Remove the driver. If you aren't familiar with driver testing take it to your local tech and let them test it. Get another one and put it back in. Done. As a bassist you will benefit by this experience. Learn basic DIY

Edit: Testing a driver is fairly easy but requires more skill- so see if you can watch the tech test your driver and learn.

bassgod0dmw · #7 01-27-2012, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bjess002

Is it ill advised to replace the speaker myself? I can send it to a shop for 80-100 bucks, but can probably handle it for around 50 on my own. I've been told I was crazy by a guitarist for considering it, though. Thoughts on DIY repair?

I think it's one of the easiest repairs one can do. I lol at the guitarist telling you it's crazy.

someparts · #8 01-27-2012, 09:00 AM

Keep in mind you can make just about any amp and cab combo fart out with the right EQ and gain settings on a low B....

I would get all the mismatched cabs out of there and get two matching 4x10s with speakers that you like. If the Avatar sounds good, handles the amp's power and the tuning then sell the other stuff off and maybe get another one.

The GK RBH cab is a completely different type of quality IMO so yeah it's going to be a better match with the amp if you want to run a single 4x10.

And per froum rules don't put a 4x10 on the 1x15 or bad things will happen.

Bjess002 · #9 01-27-2012, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassgod0dmw

I lol at the guitarist telling you it's crazy.

Yea I suppose that's why they play them little strings, too.

Cool. DIY covered. I'll replace the blown driver on the backline 410. Anyone got some input for my other queries?

Bjess002 · #10 01-27-2012, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by someparts

The GK RBH cab is a completely different type of quality IMO so yeah it's going to be a better match with the amp if you want to run a single 4x10.

And per froum rules don't put a 4x10 on the 1x15 or bad things will happen.

Haha-- that's why I'm definitely selling the BL stuff I have. I bought the 410/115 rig when I was in high school and knew nothing. My plan is to get two 410s, for sure. I just want to make sure I'm getting the right one (I thought it was the Avatar but now the aforementioned remorse is kicking in) to double up. Right now I'm not mixing cabs, just playing the single NEO, trying to figure if I want to pull the trigger on another.

bassgod0dmw · #11 01-27-2012, 09:09 AM

As for the Avatar, Dave should tell you what to do to figure out if it's broken. Just let him know you're not sure how to verify what is wrong with it, but you know something isn't right.

Bjess002 · #12 01-27-2012, 02:47 PM

Found some specs on the GK Paragon in the RBH: 50Hz to 19kHz frequency response. I'm taking it with a grain of salt but does 50hz sound a bit insufficient when paired with the ~31hz frequency of low B? Any first hand experience, 5-stringers?

Downunderwonder · #13 01-27-2012, 03:52 PM

Keep in mind that manufacturers tend to lie their collective rear ends off about how low their cabs will go, because everyone knows low E is 40Hz right? So wrong.

Very few rigs will do 40Hz at any volume yet we don't all go around complaining of flabby E. The first harmonics are where the real meat is at.

No rig does 31Hz unless it has a humungous subwoofer in it, and you wouldn't really hear it as music anyway, its more tactile, like what you get in a dance club with dubstep when the low end goes all shuddery. You can't get that from any number of 4x10 cabs.

But there is good news A large bass rig highpassed at 40Hz does full volume 60Hz and gets me a super nice bottom B. It's no good to use it with house subs as they turn it to mud.

To get your 4x10 to make a low B you must lower your bottom end EQ and boost low mids. If the cab can get some decent 60 Hz out you will have a good B. If you don't lower the sub bass the speaker flaps and overextends itself, aka blown drivers.

Vandy · #14 01-27-2012, 03:57 PM

Hartke says that their HyDrive 410 cab has a 30Hz to 17kHz response . . .
I use a Hartke 210c Combo & the on-board EQ's 1st "slider" is for 30Hz - I play a fiver & the low B "seems" fine . . .

Downunderwonder · #15 01-27-2012, 04:52 PM

Hook up a signal generator to your rig and play sinewaves at medium volume, lower and lower until your speakers start to flap about. If you get down to 31Hz and it's still humming I'll eat your shorts ( well not really, I wouldn't, but even if I would I know I don't have to worry about losing )

Bjess002 · #16 01-27-2012, 06:46 PM

Yea yea. I just wish someone in Tallahassee had the damn thing so I can test it out. Any fans of the RBH?

Gearhead17 · #17 01-27-2012, 08:04 PM

Based on your issues with blowing out speakers and your obsession with low end, you definitely need to get rid of the gear you have. You also have to keep in mind that trying to reproduce a heavy amount of low end around 30hz is useless. 60hz and up is more important in a live setting. More like 120hz and up.

The strength of low bass tones lives around 120hz and 240hz. Without these frequencies, the body of the low B notes is just not there. Commercial bass cabs can do this range with ease, but if you want something lower, be prepared to spend more money. Either on a better cab or SEVERAL cabs.

If you want a loud and versatile bass cab, the DNA 410 is a great choice. Great detail, growl, low end content, and a beautiful sounding midrange. Louder than most 410's out there. Handles a Low b string like a champ too.

Bjess002 · #18 01-27-2012, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearhead17

you definitely need to get rid of the gear you have. You also have to keep in mind that trying to reproduce a heavy amount of low end around 30hz is useless.

Well. That's not really an option, as far as my 1001Rb-ii, but kind of what I'm trying to decide in general. The avatar's lows are great, but I rather sell it while it's new if I'm going to continue to have issues with it rather than blow another $650 on another 410 just to have sketchy gear. Since I can't play an RBH, I'm trying to get first hand knowledge on the low end (since all bassist have an obsession with that, by the way) from someone who owns one. As far as my queries regarding frequency specs, I'm just trying to get educated with what certain cabs can handle.

Downunderwonder · #19 01-27-2012, 09:22 PM

If you're happy with the avatar's tone, fix it up and do like you're told with the EQ, see how you like the tone then.

Gearhead17 · #20 01-27-2012, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bjess002

Since I can't play an RBH, I'm trying to get first hand knowledge on the low end (since all bassist have an obsession with that, by the way)

The specs on about 90% of ALL bass cabs are pure marketing BS. All measured at 1khz and not very helpful to most bass players. Seriously though, get the DNA 410 if you want a 410 that is impressive with low end. I use two DNA 210's and I feel that oversized 210 is pumping out more low end than one of my Mesa 410's ever did.....

I suggest you stop obsessing about how low a speaker can go based on the specs. 90% of the time, the lowest listed frequency a cab can go is at the -10db point which means the cab is rolling off the low end at that point and is really straining to put out anything useful. Most subwoofers at shows are rolled off around 40hz anyway. Anything lower is a waste of power and can easily make the mix muddier than hell.

In response to your quote, you seem to be missing the point. It's not about how much low end below 100hz you create to get a good B string tone. You barely hear the frequencies around 30hz anyway.

If you want some low end and some major volume, get a Mesa 810, a DNA 410 or get one of those fEarful cabs. Sell off what you have for the cabs and get something good right away.