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03-17-2010, 11:21 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Columbus, Georgia | | | I need Bergantino guidance
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Ive owned a bunch of Bergantino, almost every cab, minus the IPs ( I tried an IP112 in Atlanta and loved it) and two 4x10s the AE and HS. Ive had the old HT big boxes, the NVs, the "S" shallow cabs (210S, 112S) cabs, an HS210, and a Sadowsky SA410 (that I loved).
I currently have an ER mini stack, the HT112ER and EX112ER. Im debating going back to a 4x10. I really like the ER mini stack. I like the weight of the AE410, but I think the HS410 may be better for the sound Im after.
Ill be using a GK700RB-II for a while, but may try the Fusion 550 in the coming months. My ideal tone is phat bottom, with clarity, a slight low mid bump for punch. High mids cut a bit and highs cut a bit. I dont need or require any kind of zing for what Im doing right now. I did love the SA410 and that cab is close in design to the HS410. Please do not recommend the NVs. I love em, but I want the low end of a ported cab these days. If it matters there a 99% chance that Ill be using something MusicMan and/or a P-Bass.
-So will the AE410 be better for what Im looking for or the HS?
-Which cab would be closer in flavor to the ER mini stack? The AE or HS?
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Last edited by TSanders : 03-17-2010 at 11:23 AM.
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03-17-2010, 11:24 AM
| | | | From your description, it would be the HS410 all the way.
The AE410 is ALL about aggressive upper mids. It still has that nice low mid presence, but the ratio of low mids to bass is higher in the HS410 to my ear, and the upper mids are MUCH smoother and softer.
I live and die by my AE410, but I love the grind and snap and growl and punch. The HS410 is MUCH more polite, and a bit more meaty sounding in the upper bass, low mids.
IMO and IME. Also, for context, remember the HS410 is just a slight tweak of the SA410...slightly more extended low end, so if you've owned the SA410, you've pretty much heard the HS410 if you cranked a bit more low end into the SA410. If you liked the SA410, you will LOVE the HS410.
Last edited by KJung : 03-17-2010 at 12:00 PM.
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03-17-2010, 12:45 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne, UK. | | | Stick with the ERs...they sound HUGE.
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03-17-2010, 01:07 PM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Mpls/St Paul MN | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicman20  Stick with the ERs...they sound HUGE. | +1 It sounds like you are describing the sound of what you already have. I have had an AE410 and an HS410 and now have the HT112ER's and that description describes them to a T. |
03-17-2010, 01:16 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: NE Florida | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicman20 Stick with the ERs...they sound HUGE. | +1! Haven't played the HS, but I owned the AE410. Nowhere close to the ER's.
Last edited by Bass Junkie : 03-17-2010 at 02:07 PM.
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03-17-2010, 01:17 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne, UK. | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex P. +1 It sounds like you are describing the sound of what you already have. I have had an AE410 and an HS410 and now have the HT112ER's and that description describes them to a T. | I had a HS410 and id rather have the ERs...definitely.
Id also like AE112s...but there we go haha.
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03-17-2010, 01:19 PM
|  | Hard rockin' stay-at-home dad | | Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The soggy state of Oregon | | | Just for curiosity's sake, have you tried the ER stack with a Mesa Carbine?
It's hard to imagine that stack won't give you what you're looking for with the right amp.
Personally, I'm a fan of the AE410, but our tonal goals might not be the same. I run mine with a Shuttle 6. |
03-17-2010, 01:19 PM
| | | | Per the above comments, +1. My post was strictly comparing the AE410 to the HS410. I would not think the HS410 would give you much more (given your stated tone goals) than the ER stack... a little less low end extension, a touch more punchy, maybe a touch more overall volume. |
03-17-2010, 02:04 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: NE Florida | | Quote:
Originally Posted by BartmanPDX Just for curiosity's sake, have you tried the ER stack with a Mesa Carbine?
It's hard to imagine that stack won't give you what you're looking for with the right amp.
Personally, I'm a fan of the AE410, but our tonal goals might not be the same. I run mine with a Shuttle 6. |
My M9 will be here tomorrow and will sitting on top of my ER stack!  |
03-17-2010, 02:45 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Montreal | | | From what I read, you should stay with your mini stack!! Me I have the older HT/EX and, last summer I did a lot of shows with the Berg HS410. I like it, but, the mid punch of the 12's wasn't there!! And for me, the HS410 didn't have a lot more low end than the HT/EX, on stage... So, perhaps your problem it's more with the head than the speaker...
If you're missing 10's speaker, the 12's can't do nothing for you. But really, you should try different head before changing your Berg!!
BTW, I've tried the Fusion 550, that's a great head!! Warm, tight low and punchy. The Carbine stuff from Mesa is also awesome!!! |
03-17-2010, 02:57 PM
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Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine | | Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: North central Ohio | | Quote:
Originally Posted by KJung From your description, it would be the HS410 all the way. | +1 As much as it pains me to say so, I am going to have to agree with Ken on this one.   
The HS410 is going to dial up the midrange that you are after, IME/IMHO. |
03-17-2010, 03:00 PM
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Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine | | Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: North central Ohio | | Quote:
Originally Posted by JFLbass From what I read, you should stay with your mini stack!! Me I have the older HT/EX and, last summer I did a lot of shows with the Berg HS410. I like it, but, the mid punch of the 12's wasn't there!! And for me, the HS410 didn't have a lot more low end than the HT/EX, on stage... | FWIW, I find that the original HT112/EX112 stack has more midrange punch and focus than the HT112ER stack. I believe that the ER cabs use a different 12" driver, and at any rate they are voiced deeper. The lows are flat-out amazing for a cab of their size, and the overall tonal balance is pretty good from top to bottom, but to my ears there is no denying that compared to the older "Berg Mini Stack," the older HT112/EX112 have more midrange punch and focus. |
03-17-2010, 03:41 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: NE Florida | | Quote:
Originally Posted by tombowlus FWIW, I find that the original HT112/EX112 stack has more midrange punch and focus than the HT112ER stack. I believe that the ER cabs use a different 12" driver, and at any rate they are voiced deeper. The lows are flat-out amazing for a cab of their size, and the overall tonal balance is pretty good from top to bottom, but to my ears there is no denying that compared to the older "Berg Mini Stack," the older HT112/EX112 have more midrange punch and focus. | I think I either read somewhere or maybe Jim told me they used the same driver. Regardless, the difference in the ER's and the old HT112's is huge in both tonal qualities and output. |
03-17-2010, 04:20 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: YTZ | | | I too agree that the HS is closer to the ER stack. But I think the ER stack fits your tone goal better than the other 2 choices you mentioned.
Pardon my ignorance if I missed something, but what is the reason you want to go away from the stack of 12's ?
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03-17-2010, 05:56 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Garmisch, Germany | | | I can't advise you and do not want to influence your decision either way, but I am looking for an HT112ER/EX stack. If you do decide to part with it please let me know. |
03-17-2010, 06:21 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne, UK. | | | Which tweet is from the hs410 cab? I want to get more berg in the future but I didn't like that tweet and I heard the ae112s have the same one!
This would lead me to go for the er's instead tbh.
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03-17-2010, 06:26 PM
| | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicman20 Which tweet is from the hs410 cab? I want to get more berg in the future but I didn't like that tweet and I heard the ae112s have the same one!
This would lead me to go for the er's instead tbh. | Same tweeter. I love it. The ER's are much more organic and smooth. Just depends what you want. That being said, I think the transition from the upper mids through the tweeter is MUCH better in the AE cabs than the HS's. They have a little bit of the 'Aguilar problem' IMO... warm, fat, mid punchy woofers, and then the tweeter sitting up on top that is a bit 'metalic' sounding relative to the rest of the cabs voicing. That tweeter is perfect to my ear with the much more aggressive upper mid grind of the AE voicing. |
03-17-2010, 06:31 PM
|  | zulu as kono
Endorsing Artist: FEA Labs Effects | | Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: los angeles, CA | | | ^^^ +1
I don't even notice the tweeter on the AE112 - it just is a nice even response. Of course the RH450 isn't pumping a lot of hi freq into it, but even if I crank the treble on the amp and the PJ is still feels like one fat sound instead of, "here's the lows...and now here's the highs." |
03-17-2010, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by nostatic ^^^ +1
I don't even notice the tweeter on the AE112 - it just is a nice even response. Of course the RH450 isn't pumping a lot of hi freq into it, but even if I crank the treble on the amp and the PJ is still feels like one fat sound instead of, "here's the lows...and now here's the highs." | +1 Even using a head with much more upper mid and treble response like the Markbass or Genz heads, the transition is beautiful. Of course, if you crank it all the way up, it will sound a bit much, but between 10 and 1 o'clock... fantastic to my ear. Of course, if you don't like tweeters, you don't like tweeters. But, if you don't like the AE tweeters... well... you don't like tweeters |
03-17-2010, 06:45 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne, UK. | | | Weirdly I like the rs cab tweeters more than the hs410 tweet. I also love the db tweet on the aguilars. Hmmm!
With my potential berg purchase I just want smooth and warm yet vintage...Motown/fingerfunk p bass tone. I think the er's might be right for this.
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