I need to go on an EDEN rant!

[wyleeboxer]

OK, so I bought a Nemesis RS115 combo 4 years ago, paid around $700. I wasn't sure if the speaker extension jack was wired in series like the old NC115 combo (there seemed to be some confusion around the forums), so I called Eden and they told me that the new RS115 is "absolutely" wired in Parallel and that the 8ohm N115RS extension cab is designed to run in parallel with this combo to give you the max 320watts @ 4ohms when running the combo and cab together.
So, I bought the new N115RS for around $350 to give me the most out of my new rig and the portability that I was looking for, and PAYED for! The combination sounded ok at first, and seemed to have the sensitivity of a 320watt rig, but never really sounded right, especially at larger venues when I needed to push this stack and was hoping for the headroom like that of my past big rigs?? After trying for months I never got the sound I was hoping for.
I sold the 6 month old extension cab for less then $200. I couldn't get much more then $300 for combo so I replaced the stock 250watt 8ohm "Eden made" internal speaker in the Nemesis combo with a Carvin 600watt 4ohm neo speaker which gives it the full 320watts as a standalone combo, and works great for smaller/medium venues and sounds fantastic.
Now after hearing lately that this combo's ext. speaker jack is actually wired in series, and I having just learned how to test that IT IS in fact wired in series, I put another email into Eden regarding if this combo is wired in series or parallel? Here is their response:

"I’m not sure what you mean with series and parallel with this combo? It’s a 1x15 so there is one speaker in it. If you are wondering what impedance it is running at the combo is running at 8ohms by its self. You should only hook up another 8 ohm speaker to it.

Thanks!

Kevin (Kdog) Drury
U.S. Music Corp.
444 E. Courtland St.
Mundelein, IL 60060
Fax: 775-703-1198
kevin.drury@usmusiccorp.com"

This is false and vague information, since the ext. speaker jack is wired in series you can run just about any ohm cabinet you want. And by running the "recommended" 8ohm N115RS ext. cabinet together with the 8ohm combo that gives you a total of 16ohm in series and not 4ohm in parallel, big difference! Hence the combo's amp was only putting out around 100watts when I was running this as a stack, but didn't know it at the time.
So, it really got me thinking how being misinformed by Eden (then and now) lead me to wasting a lot of TIME and MONEY. Even tho their a big reputable company, amazingly they really do not know the products their selling and I think they should add that into their warranty's fine print... "WE DO NOT KNOW OUR PRODUCTS, SO YOUR ON YOUR OWN IF YOU BLOW IT UP!"

Thanks for the Rant guys...

[JimmyM]

wow, eden lying? big surprise.

[Eminor3rd]

I'm not calling you a liar, but that's really hard to believe. I can't imagine any reason that the extension jack would be wired in series. Are you sure you aren't mistaken?

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Eminor3rd

I'm not calling you a liar, but that's really hard to believe. I can't imagine any reason that the extension jack would be wired in series. Are you sure you aren't mistaken?

a LOT of inexpensive combos do that so they can use a smaller amp to deliver the wattage specified.

[Eminor3rd]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

a LOT of inexpensive combos do that so they can use a smaller amp to deliver the wattage specified.

Interesting.

[vin*tone]

Lying is a bit harsh. And he didn't understand your question so I don't think his answer is vague. ...But ....it does look like he's flat out wrong. A quick google search gives me more knowledge on his product than Kevin "Customer Service" Dury seems to have....

From the online manual... The internal speaker is 4Ω....

"Connections With Additional Cabinets – We designed the RS series
combos to provide maximum power without the need for additional cabinets.
That’s why the impedance of the internal speakers is 4 Ohms. In order to
protect the amplifier from misuse and abuse, the extension speaker jack is
wired in series, so the amp can’t be forced to operate in an unsafe mode.
What this means to the user is that, when you connect an additional cabinet
to your RS combo, you will not get quite as much power to the speakers.
However, because of the added speaker surface area, you will still notice an
increase in volume – just not quite as much as you might expect.
Also, keep in mind that simply adding amplifier power will not necessarily
increase your volume significantly. The addition of more speakers will
usually have more impact on your overall volume level and improve your
overall presence and tone"

[vin*tone]

Originally Posted by duff2

The manual for your combo is freely available on the Eden website. It clearly states that the extension jack is wired in series.

http://www.eden-electronics.com/info...2005222006.pdf

I understand your need to vent, but I think it's unreasonable to expect a CS representative for an entity as large as US Music to be an expert on every single product they sell. ...

I totally disagree. It's his primary responsibility. IMO of course.

[duff2]

Kevin Drury is the CS representative for USM, not just the Eden division.

The manual for your combo is freely available on the Eden website. It clearly states that the extension jack is wired in series.

http://www.eden-electronics.com/info...2005222006.pdf

I understand your need to vent, but I think it's unreasonable to expect a CS representative for an entity as large as US Music to be an expert on every single product they sell.

Cheers,
Duff2

[JimmyM]

sorry vin, but someone speaking on behalf of eden should have the facts and not get stuff wrong.

so how did vin's reply go on the list before duff's initial post?

also, it is absolutely his responsibility to get stuff right. size of the company is no excuse. as you said, it's easily looked up.

[duff2]

I went into Edit mode to correct an error I made. I guess vin must have replied before I hit the post-changes button.

Cheers,
Duff2

[wyleeboxer]

I know some of the other companies use series wiring so the internal amp can deliver more power to the "usually 4 ohm" internal speaker, in this case Eden uses an 8 ohm 15" speaker internally... defeating the whole purpose of running series. Using a stock RS115 combo you could never get, no matter what ohm cab you use, the advertised 320watts, which once again we are paying for??
And yes more speakers do give more overall volume then simply adding more wattage, however, an amp running at 100watts with 2 15" speakers doesn't really do the low end trick we all need, especially when the say your amp will now produce 320watts in combination.. trust me!

[wyleeboxer]

Also, I called Eden initially just to clear up the confusion I was hearing and get it straight from the horses mouth regarding how this amp was wired. And from his last email it sounds like they still feel the amp is wired in parallel??

[12bass]

IIRC, the other RS combos use a 4 ohm internal speaker, so they have a series connection for the external speaker to ensure that the combined impedance does not go below 4 ohms. The RS115, however, comes with an 8 ohm speaker, so it needs to be rewired for parallel if using an 8 ohm external speaker.

[JimmyM]

i wonder if someone stuck a speaker from a scrapped cab into it. they are usually equipped with a 4 ohm speaker.

[fenderhutz]

I can vouch for wyleeboxer. I own the ext and combo and got the SAME run around from Eden customer support and got the REAL answer from Eden forums and it tested series. Their customer service has the wrong info on this amp. It's wired in series like the other 4ohm combos in the same series.

I honestly think it was a Chinese factory cost cutting measure or oversight since the other combos are 4ohms series. They just kept the wiring the same on all four combos even though the 15 is 8ohms and doesn't make sense to keep it that way.

[12bass]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

i wonder if someone stuck a speaker from a scrapped cab into it. they are usually equipped with a 4 ohm speaker.

The other RS models are 4 ohms internally. The RS115 comes with an 8 ohm driver. Sounds like Eden didn't bother to change the wiring on the output for the RS115.

[wyleeboxer]

Originally Posted by 12bass

IIRC, the other RS combos use a 4 ohm internal speaker, so they have a series connection for the external speaker to ensure that the combined impedance does not go below 4 ohms. The RS115, however, comes with an 8 ohm speaker, so it needs to be rewired for parallel if using an 8 ohm external speaker.

They first told me when I called several years ago that this is the only combo to have a 8 ohm speaker which is why they have now wired it in parallel unlike the other RS combo's which are wired in series.
I pulled the speaker out a few months ago and indeed it is an 8ohm speaker, I then replaced it with a 4 ohm. Maybe I should be in charge of their R&D!

[fenderhutz]

Originally Posted by 12bass

The other RS models are 4 ohms internally. The RS115 comes with an 8 ohm driver. Sounds like Eden didn't bother to change the wiring on the output for the RS115.

That's about it. Yup.

[wyleeboxer]

I just hate spending over a GRAND $$ on something and only to find out that this big reliable company cant get something as little as this right. Not to mention the $100 I spent on the Carvin speaker!

[esa372]

I sure do hate hearing how the customer service at Eden has gotten so bad since the USM buyout... they were such a great company.

I hope USM doesn't screw it up completely.