I own a GS112 + an Eden WT800C, need more volume

[mst3k]

Hi all,

Sorry for asking again what is I'm sure asked every day of the week.

I own an Aguilar GS112 and I recently bought an Eden WT800C (I also have a Genz-Benz Shuttle 3.0).

I need more volume -- this is the consensus of myself and the two people I play in a small rock outfit I play with.

We just started playing around town and have some shows lined up at bars, house parties, that sort of thing. During our first show, I played through the Shuttle 3.0 and borrowed my teacher's GS112 and stacked the two on top of one another. I was loud enough, but not by much.

I'd like to purchase something that will give me a lot of space to grow, both in the sense that I have the volume, but in that this will serve me well in the future. Because of the financial situation I'm in at 25, I want to pick up things now before I have other things to pay for.

I play a P-bass, and I love the sound I get from the Eden and the GS112. If possible, I'd be a fan of that, but louder.

Essentially what I'd like to know is: are there huge reasons I *shouldn't* get an Aguilar 410 or 412? Would one be "better" over another?

Lastly: will I look really, shamefully silly showing up to a gig at a bar toting a 412?

Thanks a lot, everyone. I wanted to ask before I drop $1,000+ on the purchase.

[David1234]

It sounds like a good plan to me.

Think about what kind of car you want to own next - that might make the 410 more appealing than the 412. And keep the 112 for smaller jobs.

[livinglow]

I use one Aguilar GS210 and one GS212 and couldn't be happier. I play in a prog rock/metal 5 piece and have no problems keeping up, most of the time I'm being told to turn down!

[naturalkinds]

I'd just get another 112. I wouldn't take your experience pairing two GS112s with the Shuttle as representative for the kind of volume you'll get with the pair getting driven by the higher-wattage Eden.

[Bmorefoozler]

If your 1x12 is 8 ohms, consider a 4ohm gs 2x12... small medium and large with yoru Eden.

[Joebone]

I'd just get another 112. I wouldn't take your experience pairing two GS112s with the Shuttle as representative for the kind of volume you'll get with the pair getting driven by the higher-wattage Eden.
Reply With Quote

This is totally correct, speaking as someone who owns a Shuttle 3.0 and a GS112NT!

[mst3k]

Originally Posted by naturalkinds

I'd just get another 112. I wouldn't take your experience pairing two GS112s with the Shuttle as representative for the kind of volume you'll get with the pair getting driven by the higher-wattage Eden.

Yeah, I was wondering about that. If I'm doing the math right, that would mean I'd be putting 300W into each GS112, rather than the 150W x2 I was playing with last time. I was under the impression that doubling the wattage was like...the smallest amount you could audibly discern?

The current 112 is 8 ohms. If I picked up a 4 ohm 212, how would I set that up -- would I just drive that with the 440W out of one of the Eden's channels? Would getting a 4 ohm cab be limiting in the future? This sounds like a solid idea, and it sound like it would maintain some semblance of portability.

[Pat C.]

Originally Posted by mst3k

Yeah, I was wondering about that. If I'm doing the math right, that would mean I'd be putting 300W into each GS112, rather than the 150W x2 I was playing with last time. I was under the impression that doubling the wattage was like...the smallest amount you could audibly discern?

Doubling the number cabinets and the power should give you a 6db increase over the 112 w/300 watts, or a 3db boost over the 2 x 112 w/300 watts. The difference will be notable. Whether it will be enough of a difference is tough to say.

I've got 112 cabs (not Aggies, but similar in size, handling and likely output) and with a loud drummer a minimum of two cabinets are necessary. And that's driven by 750 to 1000 watts. In a big venue, or on a big stage I actually prefer to run all four cabs, the headroom is a benefit and it's nice to be able to move a lot of air without having to strain the system.

The current 112 is 8 ohms. If I picked up a 4 ohm 212, how would I set that up -- would I just drive that with the 440W out of one of the Eden's channels? Would getting a 4 ohm cab be limiting in the future? This sounds like a solid idea, and it sound like it would maintain some semblance of portability.

Your GS cabs are probably more efficient than what I've got so a 212 addition may be just what you need to get adequate volume. You've got more options that way, too: leave a 112 in the rehearsal room for practice and just bring out the 212 for smaller gigs, or all three cabs for larger gigs. Aside from the extra cost and a bit more to transport, having a modular system is rarely a detriment. The Eden should have enough power to drive that system.

[Bmorefoozler]

Originally Posted by mst3k

Yeah, I was wondering about that. If I'm doing the math right, that would mean I'd be putting 300W into each GS112, rather than the 150W x2 I was playing with last time. I was under the impression that doubling the wattage was like...the smallest amount you could audibly discern?

The current 112 is 8 ohms. If I picked up a 4 ohm 212, how would I set that up -- would I just drive that with the 440W out of one of the Eden's channels? Would getting a 4 ohm cab be limiting in the future? This sounds like a solid idea, and it sound like it would maintain some semblance of portability.

You could run the 2x12 off one side at the 440 watts and the 1x12 off the other side at whatever wattage that is(300ish)? The 1x12 would be slightly louder then either of the other 12's, but probably also has a bigger box then half the 2x12 allowing it to go a bit lower nad maybe a bit more power hungry. It should match up well.

You could use your 1x12 with either head for small gigs, just the 2x12 for a bar gig, and bring 'em both when you need the firepower. Without doing the math, this setup should be roughly twice as loud(if the drivers can handle the power) as the Shuttle and 2x1x12. 300 watts into two drivers versus 700ish watts into 3x12.

[mst3k]

All of this sounds fantastic. I assume that a GS212 + a GS112 would adequately cover a large yard? The show we have coming up that I'm thinking of will put us out front of this large, old house, playing for a yard full of people (around 200 if the tally is accurate).

Related question then: what would a 410 or 412 be used for? Given that I was about to pull the trigger on a 410 or a 412, I'm curious as to how much space a single one of those will fill.

[Pat C.]

Originally Posted by mst3k

All of this sounds fantastic. I assume that a GS212 + a GS112 would adequately cover a large yard? The show we have coming up that I'm thinking of will put us out front of this large, old house, playing for a yard full of people (around 200 if the tally is accurate).

Related question then: what would a 410 or 412 be used for? Given that I was about to pull the trigger on a 410 or a 412, I'm curious as to how much space a single one of those will fill.

That's a difficult question to answer. It will depend on musical genre and the volume of the other instruments. Also, whether you have PA support. When considering the crowd you're playing to it's sometimes just as (or more) important to look at the space (square footage) you need to cover in addition to the actual number of people.

IMO, an onstage bass amp is not the ideal system to try to fill a space with sound. An adequate, properly tuned and deployed PA system will be better able to project and disperse all frequencies, typically at higher sound pressure levels than most bass amps. Most bass amps will not produce the pant-flapping effect 50 feet from the stage...but high power dual 18" subwoofers will.

If you're playing sans PA, I would just focus on blending volume and tone-wise with the guitars and kick drum. Your overall band sound will benefit from this, rather than trying to be as loud as possible across the yard.

[mst3k]

Yeah, this is all going to be without PA help for the foreseeable future. Band-wise, we're broke, and the places we're going to be playing in the near future won't have their own. But they won't be really large places either. We're playing rock covers (Badfinger, Bad Company, Grand Funk Railroad, etc); unfortunately our drummer (and hence guitarist) has only one volume.

Good to know about the PA vs bass cabinet question though. I'm just thrilled to be playing out, at the moment...after a year and a half of scales, exercises, etc in my bedroom, I've been euphoric since our first show.

Incidentally I drive a Mustang, which is short on room, and the next car will be another one. I'm not even certain a 412 would fit.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by naturalkinds

I'd just get another 112. I wouldn't take your experience pairing two GS112s with the Shuttle as representative for the kind of volume you'll get with the pair getting driven by the higher-wattage Eden.

i would. it's not that much wattage where you're going to get a significant volume difference. i think it would be representative.

[Pat C.]

Originally Posted by mst3k

Yeah, this is all going to be without PA help for the foreseeable future. Band-wise, we're broke, and the places we're going to be playing in the near future won't have their own. But they won't be really large places either. We're playing rock covers (Badfinger, Bad Company, Grand Funk Railroad, etc); unfortunately our drummer (and hence guitarist) has only one volume.

Good to know about the PA vs bass cabinet question though. I'm just thrilled to be playing out, at the moment...after a year and a half of scales, exercises, etc in my bedroom, I've been euphoric since our first show.

Incidentally I drive a Mustang, which is short on room, and the next car will be another one. I'm not even certain a 412 would fit.

Transport ability is pretty crucial. That's an advantage of having multiple small cabs - I could fit my four 112 cabs, plus an 8u ATA amp rack, two bass cases, equipment bag...plus (in a former band) the saxophonists soprano, alto, tenor and baritone horns into the back of my Rav4. But I would not be able to fit any modern 4x12 back there.

There goes my potential upgrade to a DB412.

-------------------

Regarding the PA, I assume you have something for vocals, just not enough system to reinforce the entire band? Or is this a purely instrumental classic rock cover band?

[JimmyM]

well i can tell you that a 212 rig will definitely struggle in that environment without a pa. so for that reason, i would strongly consider the 412 if you can squeeze it in there. if you can't, i think the next best rig would be two 210's in a vertical stack, or maybe two 115's. actually, the best thing to do for a small package in that environment would be to get a cab with a couple high xmax woofers like the eminence 3012lf or 3015lf and a mid driver, but some people don't care for the more hi-fi tone a rig like that can make.

[Munjibunga]

If it were me, my first choice would be a GS410 if you're sold on Aguilar. An Eden D-410XST or XLT would be a good match for that head, depending on your taste.

On the other hand, a second GS112 will significantly beef up your sound over the single GS112. I have an Aggie AG500-112C that sounds really good by itself, but adding another GS112 pumps it up to a level where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. That's only $300 used and, if it didn't cut the mustard, you could sell it for the same money and go to the 410. I think a 412 is going to be a bit of overkill, but if you like it and have a strong back, you might as well go for it.

[babebambi]

412 if you have the car to move it around. That way you would not have that nagging feeling whether you have enough rig. Outdoor gig with no PA is really taxing.

[Pacman]

Originally Posted by naturalkinds

I'd just get another 112. I wouldn't take your experience pairing two GS112s with the Shuttle as representative for the kind of volume you'll get with the pair getting driven by the higher-wattage Eden.

I have to GS112s, and love them!

[mst3k]

Originally Posted by Pat C.

Regarding the PA, I assume you have something for vocals, just not enough system to reinforce the entire band? Or is this a purely instrumental classic rock cover band?

Oh -- yeah, forgot about those I guess. The vocals are going through two Behringer 12" active speakers; they're 600W and 550W.

After thinking about this some, I feel like it's hard for me to justify getting something as large as a 412 so that some frat types can hear me when I'm on their front porch. A 412 won't fit in my car (the back seat of a Mustang? What am I, nuts?) and I don't want to have to deal with toting that around for smaller shows.

I'm afraid of being too quiet with a 212 and a 112 outdoors, but this arrangement just seems so much more portable, practical, and useful in the future.

[rockstarbassist]

3 more GS112s.