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08-27-2010, 10:57 PM
| | | | idiot who doesn't want to blow up his mackie 1400i
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Ok.. First of all.. i usually hate it when there's a person who buys gear and doesn't know how to actually use it and maintain it. .. and now , it seems, I have turned into one of those dudes..*i'm a guitar player normally .. these sort of things just don't come up to me as much" And sadly .. i have a TON of questions.. but first: background.
I have an ampeg b2r then into a mackie 1400i which i'm currently running through a custom ampeg cab *4 eminence legend bp102's wired in series-parallel for an 800 watt 410" (used to be a standard older model bse410 200 watt cab that has the logo on the bottom center). I run out out of the balanced out on the b2r. and put the 1400i on mono.. one in/one out. My first question.. is how much wattage am i running into that cab because it seems like i'm having to dime it to get any sort of viable volume.
Now because i'm in a band that places a HUGE premium on volume.. *full BI-AMPED marshall stack.. and a full orange stack that they both like to BLAST" i have decided to add a 2x15.
Here's my other questions. I have an empty cab to put the speakers into . I'm looking into the delta lf 15's @ 4 ohms. Is there a way to wire this to where i can stay with 4 ohms? seems like either series or parallel will put me above that. Secondly if there is a way to do that.. will the impedence going into the amp drop it down to 2 ohms? I did see that if i run a 4ohm and an 8 ohm cabinet it would put the impedence at 2.67 ohms.
UGH.. help?! |
08-27-2010, 11:18 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Northern Cal | | | Sounds like the Mackie needs a hotter output than the Br2 is giving it. Are you using the line out or the balanced out of the Br2. ? Have you tried to switch the padding switch on the balanced out if that is what your are using? Do you get much of a meter reading when your 'DIME IT"
Last edited by jazzblade : 08-27-2010 at 11:23 PM.
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08-27-2010, 11:23 PM
| | | | The b2r is running into the mackie through the balanced out into the xlr input on the mackie and then FROM the mackie into the 410. and yes i'm getting into the red on the meters on the mackie .. not completely, just touches it every now and again. |
08-27-2010, 11:24 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Northern Cal | | | Slow editing sorry.
Have you tried to switch the padding switch on the balanced out?? |
08-27-2010, 11:28 PM
| | | | yep.. it's not pushed in to have the -20dB pad. so i'm wondering why i'm having to push it so hard. |
08-27-2010, 11:33 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Northern Cal | | | 1.4 volts into the Mackie with the nobs all the way up will give you the full output. Don know. Your not filtering anything in the back of have the sub switch on?
I'm looking at your manual I don't have the amp.
you DO have the mackie manual don't you??? |
08-27-2010, 11:39 PM
| | | | Nope.. the sub switch isn't on.. the constant directivity horn filter is off.. i mean these guys play LOUD.. and because of their stacks being higher than my lowly 410 i'm wondering if it's just because the air they're pushing is closer to the ear and mine is getting lost on the floor. the 2 15 cab i wanna use is vertical. *bout the height of the 8x10.*.. is it ok to do two different impedances of cabs with that amp? that's my main concern.. i don't wanna give it a load it can't handle. |
08-27-2010, 11:44 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Northern Cal | | | Mackie makes some good stuff.
Sounds like you need to pump more air with more speakers.
I'm not one for mixing speaker sizes myself, ( there are tons of posts about that here), another 4x10 should do you unless your guitarist is running insane amp power. Do you guys run through a pa??
Last edited by jazzblade : 08-28-2010 at 12:50 AM.
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08-27-2010, 11:48 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Northern Cal | | | run the 15's series and that would give you 2 x 8 ohm loads, or 4 ohms in paralleled ...or run your amp in stereo and see how that sounds to balance them better??
Edit" more power isn't louder. you need more efficient speaker cone area.
Last edited by jazzblade : 08-27-2010 at 11:53 PM.
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08-27-2010, 11:52 PM
| | | | i wish we ran through a PA!! hahaha.. we play down to B standard *doom metal type stuff* so i want to cover a lot of low end myself and i'm not sure that the 410s are giving me enough downstairs to push the kind of air i need. That was my initial thought about the volume issue. |
08-27-2010, 11:55 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Northern Cal | | Quote:
Originally Posted by robburner  i wish we ran through a PA!! hahaha.. we play down to B standard *doom metal type stuff* so i want to cover a lot of low end myself and i'm not sure that the 410s are giving me enough downstairs to push the kind of air i need. That was my initial thought about the volume issue. | Ha yea! a single 410 is Deff not enough. |
08-27-2010, 11:58 PM
| | | | so i should be fine to just run it mono.. with those two cabs in mind.. one at 4ohms.. and one at 8ohms.. and it should present a 2 ohm load. ok awesome. thanks man. |
08-28-2010, 12:10 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Northern Cal | | | What I said is IF you want to,( I would in your place) wire the 15's in series.
That would give you a 8 ohm load cabinet.
Your 4x10 is already a 8 ohm load.
Together its a 4 ohm load to the amp giving you 1260 watts. YOUR AMP DOES NOT SAY IT WILL RUN INTO A 2 OHM LOAD Bridged! |
08-28-2010, 12:17 AM
| | | | My 410 is 4ohms. the 2x15 would be 8ohms. the back of that amp has a three way selector switch.. Bridged/Mono/Stereo. I usually run it on mono.. which would let me run two cabs driven separately by the two amps with one input going in. I'm just wondering how much wattage and ohmage would be going on between that. I would assume that with those two mismatched ohmages it would send a total of 2.67 ohms. |
08-28-2010, 12:55 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Northern Cal | | | You should get another 4 ohm 410 that would be plenty loud.
If you wanted to add ONE of the 15's at 4 ohms in the correct sized cabinet. That would be cool.
IMHO I think its a bad idea for a couple of reasons.
Just stuffing speakers into a cab that had not been designed for them (box size and porting) is asking for a really unbalanced sounding system.
The 15's are going to pull most of the power and I think the system will get muddy and you will loose all your punch.
Last edited by jazzblade : 08-28-2010 at 12:59 AM.
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08-28-2010, 01:28 AM
|  | I took the one less traveled by | | Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Reims, Champagne, France | | | I'd ditch the mackie for a while, at least until you can get more cabs. The b2r has more than enough power to properly run your cab. |
08-28-2010, 01:48 AM
| | | | not with those guitar players man.. 350 in the face of a 6505 turned up a lot.. and a mesa rectifier turned up a lot.. with two marshall cabs and two orange cabs... doesn't really go over too well. |
08-28-2010, 02:52 AM
| | | | The mackie specs say 250/425/630 watts into 8/4/2 ohms per side and 850/1260 watts into 8/4 ohms bridged. So at the moment when you have it in mono with your 4ohm 410 you're using one side of the mackie and getting 425w, not a lot more than the b2r's 350w. Just by bridging it you would have 1260w available into your current cab.
If you daisy chained the 410 & 215 as you say you'd have a 2.67 ohm load and the mackie would deliver about 600w. You might be better off connecting each cab directly to the mackie so you could balance their volume against each other independently.
You could consider using the b2r to drive the 410 and bridge the mackie into the 215. You'd have a lot more power available for the 215.
Personally I like the suggestion of another 4ohm 410. You would get 425w x 2 out of the mackie and much more volume with the extra speakers than you presently get. More than bridging into a single cab too. Also the whole rig will probably be easier to eq. If you have vastly different speakers one cab might need adjustments just the opposite of the other. |
08-28-2010, 03:39 AM
| | | | thanks for all the help guys.. gives me some fat to chew on while we wait for those speakers.. I just couldn't pass up 80 bucks each shipped for delta lfa's was just too good of a deal from a reputable company. .. for right now.. for air movement purposes.. is just run the 2x15 on it's own.. I realize i'm gonna lose a little bit of my top end.. the frequency response of those deltas DOES go up to 3.2 kHz which isn't TOO shabby for a 15 ... but the volume will be there. and until we start playing a lot of rooms where there is.. you know.. an ACTUAL pa.. loudness is the only concern for me. eq'ing is important.. but it means squat if people can't hear you. or in the bass world as far as i'm concerned.. "feel" you. |
08-28-2010, 07:30 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Minneapolis | | | If you are trying to make your amp keep up to a Marshall stack and an Orange stack right now thru a single 410; you are fighting a loosing battle.
You could have 4,000 watts and the cab you are playing through still wouldn't be as loud as your guitar players'.
Adding speakers of some kind here should help you out in the efficiency department.
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