If marcus miller were to play dub?

Bjazzman · #1 10-05-2010, 04:54 PM

what cabs would he use to get his sparkly high end and deep dub tone?

and if he were to use the fx25 with the sensitivity down, what cabs would allow him to have his tone and feel it too?

im thinking it would probably take at least a 2 cab or larger cab setup to do this

what do you think

i know the fearful will be in this linup. what else?

countrybass007 · #2 10-05-2010, 04:59 PM

Doesn't he use guitar amps to get the highs? He's an endorser for SWR.

pbass2 · #3 10-05-2010, 05:10 PM

Odd thought, but he's a pro, so I imagine he would use a tone and setup right for dub, i.e. no sparkly highs!

Derek Kiernan · #4 10-05-2010, 06:21 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if it was with the same equipment. You'd probably want to be able to get a lot of fundamental from both the cabinet and the pickups, and an onboard preamp to avoid potentially boosted upper mids from the pickup inductance interacting with the cable capacitance. Roll back the tone pot towards the bottom and boost the highs at the amp!

smeet · #5 10-05-2010, 06:32 PM

If you've ever heard Marcus live, he actually has very deep lows, his sound in general is less bright than a lot of other modern bassists. He's also played many kinds of music over the years, so I think he would have no problem getting a dubby sound.

bass12 · #6 10-05-2010, 06:47 PM

I always find it strange when people talk about "playing dub", as if the bass lines/aesthetic are any different in a dub mix than they are in non-dubbed reggae...

Jazz Ad · #7 10-05-2010, 06:52 PM

Well yes indeed, they are very different.

bass12 · #8 10-05-2010, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

Well yes indeed, they are very different.

How so?

Gasman · #9 10-05-2010, 06:59 PM

Please educate me here, as I am a little confused by the question. I confess to complete ignorance in "dub", but when I hear that term two things come to mind.

1. The reggae "dub" i.e. the sound of a jazz bass with flats and the treble rolled off, or

2. The sound of bass in a dance club or hip-hop/rap setting, where again there is no treble or mids really, just teeth-rattling low end.

Is this what you (and everyone else) is talking about? As to the OP, I have no idea/

bass12 · #10 10-05-2010, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gasman

Please educate me here, as I am a little confused by the question. I confess to complete ignorance in "dub", but when I hear that term two things come to mind.

1. The reggae "dub" i.e. the sound of a jazz bass with flats and the treble rolled off, or

2. The sound of bass in a dance club or hip-hop/rap setting, where again there is no treble or mids really, just teeth-rattling low end.

Is this what you (and everyone else) is talking about? As to the OP, I have no idea/

Unfortunately, "dub" is one of those terms that has been twisted a little by (I hate to say it) people who don't really know much about reggae. Strictly speaking, a "dub" is a remix of an existing reggae track. More recently various bands have professed to play dub "live", usually meaning that various techniques applied to dub mixing are applied live (drop outs of different instruments at different times, the addition of effects - most typically echo - and much less dependence on vocals). People will sometimes talk about "dub bass lines" but there really is no such thing. A "dub bass line" would simply be a reggae bass line. In the late 70s and, especially, the 80s the word "dub" was often added to remixes of club tracks. These "dub" mixes usually had very little to do with actual dub (although the word "dub" could often be relied upon to denote "instrumental" when used in reference to such club remixes) but sounded kind of hip. In the 90s a number of producers began to focus on creating dub from scratch (as opposed to mixing an already existing track) and the influence of dub aesthetics could be heard in all kinds of electronic music (especially stuff out of England). The most obvious examples of this influence are probably "ambient" techno and "trip hop".

BurningSkies · #11 10-05-2010, 07:56 PM

Yes, and no.

There are a lot of bands currently creating live 'dub mixes' very effectively on stage. Yes, dub certainly DID start out from version madness in the Jamaican music industry, but artist's have been shouting for 'DUBWISE' or DUB-IT while on stage for decades now too. Traditionally all the 'tricks' that a band could pull out to make their live music sound like a dub mix when done right...worked great. It doesn't hurt to have someone at the board who can lend a hand.

Now, of course, part of the original dub mixes on the backside of the extended plate was not just a difference in the mix on that record, but a difference in tone. The bass WAS pushed up in the mix, but given more low end boost, it wasn't just sliding stuff in and out along with an echo, a reverb and a phaser. It was a tweak of the tone settings too, with an emphasis on the bass and bass frequencies.

I find it 'fortunate' rather than unfortunate that there are dub bands out there. They're expanding in an organic way upon the tradition laid down by the giants of the past. There's all sorts of different takes on dub (there have always been). Part of that came from guys like Mad Professor, taking the mix on the road. I've had the pleasure of standing behind the board when he performs, and yes, he dubs it live. He dubs the bass heavy and is brilliant on a board.

In this case, I think the OP needs to know that you can do this with MANY different rigs. Look for something that gives you adjustability in the range of 40-60 hz on the low end and has enough clean headroom so that you can push lows loud and clean. Look for cabs that can reproduce lows loud and clean (big boxes, well engineered with low end extension).

Bjazzman · #12 10-05-2010, 09:14 PM

yeah i should have said dub(like instrumental reggae, mostly triplet and rhythm based) and not dubstep or electronic style dub

think theivery corporation style but with marcus sparkle

any particular cabs? and would you think 10's 12's or 15's would be better in this application?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

Yes, and no.

There are a lot of bands currently creating live 'dub mixes' very effectively on stage. Yes, dub certainly DID start out from version madness in the Jamaican music industry, but artist's have been shouting for 'DUBWISE' or DUB-IT while on stage for decades now too. Traditionally all the 'tricks' that a band could pull out to make their live music sound like a dub mix when done right...worked great. It doesn't hurt to have someone at the board who can lend a hand.

Now, of course, part of the original dub mixes on the backside of the extended plate was not just a difference in the mix on that record, but a difference in tone. The bass WAS pushed up in the mix, but given more low end boost, it wasn't just sliding stuff in and out along with an echo, a reverb and a phaser. It was a tweak of the tone settings too, with an emphasis on the bass and bass frequencies.

I find it 'fortunate' rather than unfortunate that there are dub bands out there. They're expanding in an organic way upon the tradition laid down by the giants of the past. There's all sorts of different takes on dub (there have always been). Part of that came from guys like Mad Professor, taking the mix on the road. I've had the pleasure of standing behind the board when he performs, and yes, he dubs it live. He dubs the bass heavy and is brilliant on a board.

In this case, I think the OP needs to know that you can do this with MANY different rigs. Look for something that gives you adjustability in the range of 40-60 hz on the low end and has enough clean headroom so that you can push lows loud and clean. Look for cabs that can reproduce lows loud and clean (big boxes, well engineered with low end extension).

BurningSkies · #13 10-05-2010, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bjazzman

yeah i should have said dub(like instrumental reggae, mostly triplet and rhythm based) and not dubstep or electronic style dub

think theivery corporation style but with marcus sparkle

any particular cabs? and would you think 10's 12's or 15's would be better in this application?

Speaker Size doesn't matter. As long as its a decent speaker and in a box that can provide the range of tone that you want, you're solid. I'd personally look at high wattage ratings and something with a fairly 'flat' voice. I love my fEarful set up, but previous to that I had Berg, etc.

Matt Dean · #14 10-05-2010, 09:37 PM

Bass 12 and BurningSkies are both right.

Dub evolved from remixing reggae tracks with tape before the advent of digital recording. It has been evolving in different directions on the basis of different artists doing their thing both live and in the studio.

pbass2 · #15 10-05-2010, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bjazzman

yeah i should have said dub(like instrumental reggae, mostly triplet and rhythm based) and not dubstep or electronic style dub

think theivery corporation style but with marcus sparkle

any particular cabs? and would you think 10's 12's or 15's would be better in this application?

So, essentially, you're asking about how to get a good onstage sound for downtempo, reggae-flavored music? I guess I still don't see how the Marcus Miller part fits into the equation, unless you mean you want to play that kind of music but use a scooped/bright sound like what he's known for. No reason that can't work and be cool in the right context, it's just that in most of that music the bass is more "round" (or dare I say "dubby"

The highs can be incredibly annoying and unnecessary unless they're really there for a reason. It's a song by song thing I would say.
Any speaker size will work, just depends on the size of the rig and the setting. I have played using nothing but a 1x12" onstage as a monitor with guys from Dub Syndicate, to an SVT 8x10 fridge rig on a tour opening for Burning Spear, to (my current favorite) 2x15"s, to no amp at all in many cases--just a good bass through a good DI.
Any decent, appropriately-powered bass rig that can also handle funk, RnB, pop, etc. that's worth it's salt can do the job--the rest is EQ and your hands.

LowB-ing · #16 10-06-2010, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bjazzman

think theivery corporation style but with marcus sparkle

Fieldy's rig should do it...

Lincoln · #17 10-06-2010, 05:50 AM

Marcus would palm mute with his right hand and lay his left hand fingers across the finger board as mutes—and use the same rig. This is the technique he uses for walking jazz, reggae, or p-bass sounds...

aledeville · #18 10-06-2010, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

Speaker Size doesn't matter. As long as its a decent speaker and in a box that can provide the range of tone that you want, you're solid. I'd personally look at high wattage ratings and something with a fairly 'flat' voice. I love my fEarful set up, but previous to that I had Berg, etc.

+1
Almost too much truth for TB in one posting