Improving drop-D presence

Karma Police · #1 10-19-2011, 03:03 PM

Hi all,

Despite what guitarists think, volume isn't always the answer, so I thought I'd ask you wise folk here as to your suggestions for improving the presence/punch/girth of my low D - but feel free to treat this like a "WWYD?" situation and fiddle with my entire setup. Open to lots of suggestions.

I've recently formed a heavy/post rock/ambient type band, and last night we had an awesome jam. However, I did notice that my low D (we play in drop D - pretty high for the genre!) seemed to lack the presence and power. All of the other notes and frequencies were glorious, trouser-flapping Titans - but the D seemed to fall away a bit.

I've been playing live for about five years or so now, but this is the first band that is entirely in a drop tuning, so I'd like to get my rig absolutely sorted out, rather than faking it for a song or two.

At this stage it's me, a guitarist, and a drummer - so I'm pretty keen on keeping quite a fat sound that fills out the sound, rather than necessarily something with lots of cut and high-end definition.

My rig is:

ESP Vintage Four w/SD Quarter Pound and SPB-2 pickups
Radian custom bass w/Nordstrand MM humbucker + twisted pole jazz +active EQ
Mesa M-Pulse 360 w/footswitchable parametric EQ and compressor
Ampeg SVT410HLF cab

I also use a couple of pedals - a tuner

, a Boss ODB-3 (be nice!) and a Guyatone Micro Chorus.

I am extremely pleased with my tone and am not looking to change it dramatically - just improve a fairly specific area.

Having mostly been a "plug in and play" sort of guy, I'm guessing the answer lies in that mystery area of my EQ settings. But it could be lots of things...pickup placement, using compression (I don't), string type...

Thanks in advance for any help!

Karma Police · #2 10-19-2011, 03:05 PM

Oops, I should add - please feel free to move this to a more appropriate forum. I tried searching, but couldn't quite find anything that matched what I wanted to achieve.

stflbn · #3 10-19-2011, 03:14 PM

I'd first take the ODB3 and Chorus out of the chain and see if you can get a tone you like that way first. Then I'd look at EQ'ing.

If the D was the only string that was weak I'd suspect the need for a heavier string, or try playing closer to the bridge to tighten that note up. Unfamiliar with your head so can't comment on it's EQ abilities, but I'd suggest potentially less low, more low mid.

tekhedd · #4 10-19-2011, 03:20 PM

Could be something as simple as where you are standing in the room or where the amp is located. In a practice-size room (even a large living room) these things make a big difference (what with standing waves and all that).

RickenBoogie · #5 10-19-2011, 05:10 PM

+1 to above, and +1 to punching up the low mids, 160Hz- around 300Hz. The semi para eq on that amp is awesome. Do some eq study, then tweak away.

alec · #6 10-19-2011, 05:30 PM

Is it the whole heavy string that's weak, just the low open D, or all Ds on the neck?

mck0rn · #7 10-19-2011, 07:18 PM

I use earnie ball power slinky's. Drop D, fender american standard jazz bass through an orange ad200 and an orange obc115 and even when I play without an amp my low d is very tight and punchy. I'd give those strings a shot

mck0rn · #8 10-19-2011, 07:40 PM

I'd also like to add I play everyday and have had these strings on for like 3 months..

Karma Police · #9 10-22-2011, 01:07 AM

Thanks guys. It is pretty much just the low D note that loses the punch, but I could maybe try a thicker string - currently using a 45-105 set.

I'll also try out the other suggestions - I won't be able to for a few days, so I'll spend the time learning about EQs. Any good resources or general rules out there?

Gearhead17 · #10 10-22-2011, 02:42 PM

I am not a big fan of the Ernie Ball Slinky's, but in the past I was. I now use DR Hi-Beams and get tons more clarity and better string balance. The midrange is much more present too.

For a D tuned string, I suggest a .110 gauge string at a minimum. The .105's can easily get too floppy.

RickenBoogie · #11 10-22-2011, 02:45 PM

+1 to the .110 string. In fact, I have a bass tuned D standard and use a .125

Gearhead17 · #12 10-22-2011, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karma Police

Thanks guys. It is pretty much just the low D note that loses the punch, but I could maybe try a thicker string - currently using a 45-105 set.

I'll also try out the other suggestions - I won't be able to for a few days, so I'll spend the time learning about EQs. Any good resources or general rules out there?

General rule - start cutting frequencies that are too strong before boosting others that are too weak. Cutting one area will make other areas sound better.

Set your bass controls flat, set the gain on the amp to a decent setting and put all of the knobs on the amp head at the neutral position (no cut or boost). Play your bass and adjust one knob at a time. Boost it, play, boost it more and play, decrease it, play and so on...... Learn one knob at a time.

I just thought of something, you play "all the time" and your strings are 3 months old. Your strings are probably 90% or more dead. If you want that low droning/dead tone, you will definitely get it. But you will probably lose a lot of clarity in the note. not just high end, but overall note recognition. That could be the main reason your D strings sounds so terrible.

I suggest a new set of strings - maybe nickel plated (a different brand possibly) this time for less high end, more warmth, and plenty of low end. Try the .110 for the D string too.

Karma Police · #13 10-22-2011, 04:27 PM

Thanks. I already am using DR Hi-Beams - these are a fresh set (maybe you got me confused with someone else?). The only problem with changing strings is that here in little old New Zealand, it's expensive and selection is pretty poor. In shops, the DR strings cost the equivalent of about $US45, and most other strings aren't much less - plus it's hard to reliably get anything in a heavier gauge, save for some of the DR DDT strings. I've never been a fan of D'Addario or Ernie Ball, and those are pretty much the only 'good' brands we get. I will keep looking around, though - perhaps the Hi Beam 50-110 will pop up somewhere!

Edit: finding nickel strings is pretty difficult! Only ever seen a couple of sets when I've been looking. I might try ordering some different sets from overseas.

Gearhead17 · #14 10-22-2011, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karma Police

Thanks. I already am using DR Hi-Beams - these are a fresh set (maybe you got me confused with someone else?). The only problem with changing strings is that here in little old New Zealand, it's expensive and selection is pretty poor. In shops, the DR strings cost the equivalent of about $US45, and most other strings aren't much less - plus it's hard to reliably get anything in a heavier gauge, save for some of the DR DDT strings. I've never been a fan of D'Addario or Ernie Ball, and those are pretty much the only 'good' brands we get. I will keep looking around, though - perhaps the Hi Beam 50-110 will pop up somewhere!

Edit: finding nickel strings is pretty difficult! Only ever seen a couple of sets when I've been looking. I might try ordering some different sets from overseas.

I think I got confused with another poster! Whoops! Strings, Instrument Strings, Music Strings for Guitar, Bass, Mandolin, Fiddle and More can get you what you need. You can order single strings. Sets are a pain to find what you really want.

JohnMCA72 · #15 10-22-2011, 04:35 PM

If any open string sounds dull, I'd check out the nut. Case in point: I just had mine replaced this week. Open A was dull, & I'd noticed it on a couple of different string sets. I could grab it a little extra hard if I needed to, & I don't use open strings much anyway, so it wasn't a big deal; just something that I'd noticed a couple of times. Last string change, I was pulling & tugging the new A as I added tension & I noticed that if I pushed the string sideways above the nut, that the dullness went away! A little closer exam & I had something I could demonstrate to the luthier, who got me set up right away!

Karma Police · #16 10-22-2011, 04:36 PM

Thanks for that link. Unfortunately with international shipping at $US40, it becomes $US86 for four individual strings

I might have to make the most of that service to do a bulk order...

JP Morin · #17 10-22-2011, 04:53 PM

+1 to all that have been said, I'll change the low D for a .110 too and keep the other strings the gauge they are if you like them... I read somewhere that Justin Chancellor of Tool (I'm a big fan) uses EB super slinky medium heavy and switches the .105 for a .110. Like you he tunes in drop D.

I don't know if you can do that on new zealand, but as I use uncommon string gauge too, I order my strings dierctly from the net,I don't buy a package but each string separately so I can have the gauge I want and have them delivered directly at home...
I order spare strings at the same time as I can't get them at the store around here... I order mine direct from the d'addario website presently as they offer more the gauge I want and try to avoid resellers... You should search and try other companies too and see who sells in your area and buy a batch so you would effectively save on the shipping..

heavy/post rock/ambient type band... Seems interesting.. I'd like to hear someday !!

rpsands · #18 10-22-2011, 05:45 PM

I'd try changing your attack and turning up the volume. A lot of time when your string gets all floppy from being detuned playing softer can help, or moving the position you play around.

Can also raise your action a little at the bridge on the E.

DBH_Bass · #19 10-23-2011, 12:16 AM

my band plays in drop C (CGCF) and I sound very clear and loud just by rolling back a smidge (think 7 o'clock at the neck and 8 o'clock on the bridge) on both my volume and tone knobs on the bass and my EQ is essentially flat. I also raised the action on my bridge ever so slightly. Strong fingers as well.

here are my amp settings, maybe they can help?

High: 12 o'clock
Hi-Mid: 10 o'clock
Lo-Mid: 1 o'clock
Low: 12 o'clock
Boost: 12:30~
Gain: 3 o'clock
Master: 2 o'clock

Horn and contour on.

blastjv · #20 10-23-2011, 05:59 AM

Good advice in here. You might also try a compressor (I don't think I read that in here) I like my BBE Opto Stomp for gently evening out the levels and presence of each string (I play in Drop C).

-JV