Interesting/Rare West Laboratories bass amp

[panama]

Saw this on my local CL. I am in no way affiliated with the seller.

http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/msg/1943822743.html

Pretty interesting website by the creator of these amps - http://westlabs.com/Frames.HTML

His website is all over the place and pretty unorganized and the "history" of the company is a work in progress that doesn't seem to have much direction.

[panama]

Also I know these are rare but $1500 seems pretty steep for this rig.

[KramerBassFan]

Yummy!

Doubt it'll sell, though...

Although, maybe.

[panama]

On another West Labs thread on TB someone mentioned that $200 seems fair for a West head. This seems really low for any tube head. I think $900 for the pair seems more reasonable.

[RickC]

Mel tone!

[JimmyM]

interesting read here:

"Before the JBL speakers even came in, Dick told me that his friends in a local band, Terry Knight and the Pack, (shades of Grand Funk) were the first band outside of Norm Sundholm's own band to play the new Sunn amplifiers and "would I like to see one?" I said "what the heck, bring one in." The amp arrived in the shop and I proceeded to take it apart. Much to my surprise it contained a completely stock Dynaco Mark III power amp and a very little modified Dynaco PAM-I monaural preamp. They were putting these items in a cabinet, putting JBL speakers in a cabinet, and getting LARGE BUCKS for these things. I thought, "If they can do it, why can't I?" Thus was born the original spark that led to West LaboratoriesTM and the West guitar amps."

so sunns and wests were just dynaco pres and power amps assembled in a head?

[KramerBassFan]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

interesting read here:

"Before the JBL speakers even came in, Dick told me that his friends in a local band, Terry Knight and the Pack, (shades of Grand Funk) were the first band outside of Norm Sundholm's own band to play the new Sunn amplifiers and "would I like to see one?" I said "what the heck, bring one in." The amp arrived in the shop and I proceeded to take it apart. Much to my surprise it contained a completely stock Dynaco Mark III power amp and a very little modified Dynaco PAM-I monaural preamp. They were putting these items in a cabinet, putting JBL speakers in a cabinet, and getting LARGE BUCKS for these things. I thought, "If they can do it, why can't I?" Thus was born the original spark that led to West LaboratoriesTM and the West guitar amps."

so sunns and wests were just dynaco pres and power amps assembled in a head?

Didn't you know that about SUNN's?

The Early ones at least... dynaco kit.

The full story was, the founder had a brother who played bass. And he got a fender amp. He put JBL speakers in the cabinet, and put a hi-fi dynaco amp. And it sounded pretty good. He realized it didn't need to say FENDER to sound good. .... and that he could make lots of cash doing the same.

[Chef]

Well...I suppose they look sorta similar, reversed layout...but that don't prove much about what's inside.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by KramerBassFan

Didn't you know that about SUNN's?

The Early ones at least... dynaco kit.

The full story was, the founder had a brother who played bass. And he got a fender amp. He put JBL speakers in the cabinet, and put a hi-fi dynaco amp. And it sounded pretty good. He realized it didn't need to say FENDER to sound good. .... and that he could make lots of cash doing the same.

nope, had no clue. i've only even cared about what goes into amps for a couple of years.

[edbass]

Well, actually only the very early (and rare) split chassis amps were Dynakits shoved in a box. This is one of mine that also has one of earliest "new" Sunn logo plates;




Another rarity in this particular split chassis is the fact that it's a 40 watt with EL34's and not a 60 watt with KT88s.

As you can plainly see, this 200S single chassis looks nothing like a Dynaco, and this is the amp generally thought of and referred to as the "original" Sunns. The circuit is still very close to the Dynaco Mk III, but the layout isn't even close.



This old warrior is getting ready for a set of filter caps, and possibly a set of KT120's.

West amps were never Dynakits shoved in a box as the early Sunns were, but are very similar to the single chassis Sunns; basic Dynacoesque Hi-Fi circuit with massive trannies, not exactly the same. This is what makes them such good bass amps, super clean with loads of bottom end.
I don’t kinow as much about Wests as I do about Sunns, but IMO the particular West amp in the ad is probably worth every bit of $1500. If it is indeed a "Fillmore" stack (I can't tell for sure from the photos) it's very rare, a 4 x KT88, strong 200 watt head, and each of those cabs should be a pair of D140F's on the diagonal.
The same rig Mel Schacher used to play arenas and stadiums, but with two cabs instead of four.

All of the Sunn amps are designed after the venerable Dynaco Hi-Fi amps of the late 50's, and there are lots of Sunn worshipers on this site. But… who can answer these questions; without spending an hour or so searching the web?

The early "Model 60" Sunn was a Dynakit Mk III in a box with a modified Dynakit PAM 1 preamp, and the 200S is based on the 60 watt Dynaco Mark III.
Who knows which model Dynakit power amp is actually in my pictured 40 watt split chassis, and which model Dynaco amp is my amp below amp based on?

[62bass]

Originally Posted by KramerBassFan

Didn't you know that about SUNN's?

The Early ones at least... dynaco kit.

The full story was, the founder had a brother who played bass. And he got a fender amp. He put JBL speakers in the cabinet, and put a hi-fi dynaco amp. And it sounded pretty good. He realized it didn't need to say FENDER to sound good. .... and that he could make lots of cash doing the same.

I was there when it happened and in fact, posted about it once before. The first one to do that idea that I know of was a keyboard player in the band I was with in Vancouver. He later became my brother in law. He was good electronics technician building up Dynas and jamming in a little 12AX7 preamp on that small chassis and he had another guy building 1 and 2x15 cabs with JBLs. I owned one. Great amp for the time. Some of the amps he had the chassis chrome plated if you wanted to pay for it. He made quite a few of these and also built up small portable organs that has a unique sound.

At that time a lot of the Seattle area bands like the Wailers and the Sonics and other Pacific Northwest bands would come up to Vancouver to play on the bill with the local Vancouver bands. Just about every bassist had one of those Dynas. I'm sure that's what gave the Sunn guys their idea because they were involved with all these Pacific Northwest bands and would haver surely heard of the Dyna amps from them. I know that a few were sold to a couple Pacific Northwest bands. Anyhow, the Vancouver ones were first and the keyboard player was a guy named Terry Coan, who owned a radio and TV repair shop. I think he's retired now but he did very well with his shop. He made up a lot of goodies for the local musicians.

Edit to add-this was in the early 60s about the time the MK lll was released.

[panama]

I don't even care that my thread is being hi-jacked. This is fascinating!

[billfitzmaurice]

It's not like Sunn copying Dynaco was unusual. Fender copied his circuits from Western Electric, and Marshall copied Fender's copies.

[JimmyM]

and jess oliver got the b-15 design straight out of an rca tube manual. not alarming that sunn did it, just i didn't know it until this thread.

sorry for the hijack, panama...you'll find i'm pretty good at that

[funkytoe]

Back to the original topic -- West amps were really made famous by Grand Funk Railroad. Mel Schacher used a Fillmore head with a wall of cabs. West also made two smaller wattage heads, the Grande and the Avalon (all named after famous music venues). But the Filmore for sale above was the big daddy. Reported to be insanely loud at 200 watts.

These heads trade between $600 - 800 dollars alone. So, $1,500 with two original cabs is a little high, but not that far out of line. I would think these would sell at auction for at least $1,000.

Would love to fire that up and play a good old 70's p bass through her.

[edbass]

Originally Posted by funkytoe

These heads trade between $600 - 800 dollars alone. So, $1,500 with two original cabs is a little high, but not that far out of line.

Where have you bought or sold these West amps for $600 - $800? Have you bought any recently? More importantly; do you have any for sale?

Originally Posted by funkytoe

I would think these would sell at auction for at least $1,000.

What auction are you referring to, and does this auction frequently auction off West and other old obscure tube gear?

Thanks in advance for the “heads up”, I try to watch the market pretty closely for specific vintage gear, and West is on my hot sheet. Somehow I missed the trades you are referring to; I’d like to research these sources you have found.

[panama]

I think he was speaking in general terms?

Why don't you get this guys gear if you're into it?

[LongHairFreak]

Man!! If only I had that sort of cash to throw out there. Mel's od on GFR's first live recording ("Live Album") is the absolute of od. That...or his rather...is the only other's sound I wish I could emulate exactly.

[funkytoe]

Originally Posted by edbass

Where have you bought or sold these West amps for $600 - $800?

What auction are you referring to, and does this auction frequently auction off West and other old obscure tube gear?

Most of the sales/auctions I have seen for West amps occur in and around Michigan, where West amps were made.

Here's a CL add from just last month. http://flint.craigslist.org/msg/1880321362.html

and here's an auction listing from last year on a Fillmore head http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&client=safari

[BillyB_from_LZ]

In '05 I almost bought a West Filmore head for $300 at the Ann Arbor Music Go Round store (I would have except I flew to Detroit on that particular business trip rather than travelling by car and I didn't want to carry the thing through Detroit Metro, much less explain it to the TSA). I mentioned it to another TBer who ultimately bought it. He contacted Dave West who told him that the amp he had was built for Grand Funk (it had a pair of cooling fans mounted in the case). I think Dave offered him $750, sight unseen. He declined.

I think the Craigslist price is way too high...but I'm a bottom feeder!

Given that the ad says O.B.O and the economy in Michigan (expecially in the Flint area) is in the tank, perhaps the right offer might be a lot less...