IPR1600 amps won't play together?!

**B-string** · #1 04-10-2010, 08:48 PM

This one for the books! Two new Peavey IPR 1600 amps, each amp will work, turn both on one goes silent and the signal LED stays lit with no input at all. Yes I know I have warranty, yes I know I can get an exchange. That not what the thread is about.
The IPR's are new tech and us old boys DON"T know it all! Wierd little troubles that can happen in the real world have no reason in engineering? The only way both amps would continue working is if one was plugged into a completely different AC circuit!
What you think my fellow geeks?

JimmyM · #2 04-11-2010, 04:31 AM

i think it's a broken framistat in the globulator. or maybe hartley peavey hates you.

craig.p · #3 04-11-2010, 06:39 AM

Could be interaction between the switcher power supplies. Maybe putting one on another circuit put you on the "other" phase and so you got some isolation from that. Even if it were on the same phase, you'd still get some resistive/inductive isolation, maybe just enough to let both switchers start up properly. I don't know. I'm totally guessing. have you verified both outlets are "to spec" in terms of polarity, ground, and voltage UNDER LOAD? (Yes, I know an idling switcher isn't much of a load but something loose or corroded at the panel or outlet can cause quite a voltage drop w/o much current draw.) Also make sure this isn't the old aluminum house wiring which needed to be re-torqued every so often. You could try plugging 1 or both amps into a surge/noise suppressor (conditioner) to see what happens, then let us know.

craig.p · #4 04-11-2010, 07:06 AM

Also a side note -- you do realize, if you really start pushing those babies, you might need dedicated breakers anyway, right? (OTOH if they're just going to coast most of the time, "never mind," as they say.)

Zooberwerx · #5 04-11-2010, 07:24 AM

Describe your full cabling configuration, please! Preamp source, what inputs / outputs, speaker outs, etc.

Edit: Looked at the manual but didn't see the appropriate reference....may have to contact Peavey. With the signal LED glowing steadily and no signal (that we know of), the situation smacks of a default protection mode. Protected from what, we don't know.

Riis

BassmanPaul · #6 04-11-2010, 09:29 AM

Remember that they are young. Perhaps they need to learn some social skills so they can play nice together.

Paul

**B-string** · #7 04-11-2010, 10:56 AM

Thanks Paul and Jimmy for the chuckles

As far as the power and signal chain; The practice room is in the drummers garage, home is 7 years old with 200 amp service panel. Garage has two 20 amp branches for 120 and a 50 amp 220. Nominal voltage 118 volts. All outlet wiring verified.
Signal chain started out as mixer to DBX Drive rack, high output to one IPR1600, low to second IPR1600 (biamp operation). Micro-verbs in the mixer chain. Mains 3 way 15", subs two TL606's.
By the end of the frustration; mixer to one IPR1600, to the two 3 way mains. Second IPR1600 removed from rack, no inputs connected, no outputs connected. Amp was naked, on it's own with only a power cord. Removed amp was also tried with shorting plugs to the inputs and the TL606's connected (it did have a slight white noise which was hard to hear with EV's and no tweeters. But only when both amps were powered on).
It was like having two Ex's in the same room fighting for attention?

Peavey has been contacted. Our second guitarist is also an EE and looked like he was going to have a break down? I keep telling him books don't always fallow the real world. Between the two of us all possible combinations for inputs, outputs, power connections with spike strips (power "conditioners") and direct to the wall were tried.

BassmanPaul · #8 04-11-2010, 11:33 AM

I am a newbie when it comes to SMPS but from all that I've gleaned there should be no interaction. AC gets rectified and turned into DC. That is chopped at a high rate of speed converting it into AC again. That's fed into the transformers to get the required voltages then rectified and turned into DC at the required levels. The only thing that I can think of is that there is some high frequency noise reflected back onto the AC line that the other amp considers a fault and goes into protect. Either that or a broken framistat in the globulator, or maybe hartley peavey hates you!

Let us know what Peavey comes up with.

Paul

BurningSkies · #9 04-11-2010, 11:48 AM

Please keep us updated on this.I've got an IPR4500 on pre-order and am very interested in these goings on...

...if they ever release it.

**B-string** · #10 04-11-2010, 11:52 AM

I'll let you know Peavey's answer (if any). I hope I've pulled the correct amp from service? My thinking is the amps should be tolerant of AC noise so even if the one still in service is producing noise in the line, any other source could do the same?
I know Peavey bass amps don't like me, I was hoping Peavey power amps would redeem their name with me? Time will tell......

jza57 · #11 04-11-2010, 12:00 PM

I don't know but I was in the Peavey sound booth at Namm when they had a brick load of them pumping out some serious DB's . One of the floor models had the top off and I cannot see there being too much of a problem assessing if there is a problem. There is almost nothing in the chassis . As with all new gear you need to retrace your steps in connection , read the manual again and again . My beef with Peavey has never been reliability. Good Luck

johnk_10 · #12 04-11-2010, 12:13 PM

well that's new one to me. i've never heard of any amp(s) exhibiting that sort of problem and i think that it'll be very interesting to hear what Peavey says about it.

BurningSkies · #13 04-11-2010, 12:13 PM

The whole situation seems a bit weird. There are a few IPR 1600 threads on TB, and those comment on some form of trouble. The dates on the other versions besides the 1600 are either unknown or keep getting pushed back.

I pre-ordered figuring the 4500 would be shipping by the time my next fEarful would be done, and that the amp would be a good fit for a 2-cab fEarful 15 rig, keeping things light and powerful but cost effective.

I also figured it would double for PA front end or monitors or both if the need was there (some of the gigs we show up to we get unpleasant surprises as to what people consider a decent PA for a 6pc band).

I'm comfortable with the light/switching/D amp world (my LMII has never had a problem, I run it at 8ohms and fairly hard), but I wonder what the problem with Peavey and these amps are.

**B-string** · #14 04-11-2010, 12:18 PM

I'm sure it will be resolved, I am very methodical in trouble shooting so steps were retraced many times, manual (as it is) consulted many times, triple and quadruple checking. Just wish one of the old iron amps didn't need to be put back in service. DAMN THAT RACK WAS LIGHT, for a couple hours........

BurningSkies · #15 04-11-2010, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-string

I'm sure it will be resolved, I am very methodical in trouble shooting so steps were retraced many times, manual (as it is) consulted many times, triple and quadruple checking. Just wish one of the old iron amps didn't need to be put back in service. DAMN THAT RACK WAS LIGHT, for a couple hours........

And there you have it. to have 1.5 to 6 kw on tap for under 10lbs is the draw of these. even 2 in a 4 space rack could run a decent sized full PA that would handle most live situations where you might have to provide your own sound. Some have suggested that the input sensitivity may make it possible to use my LMII as a pre for my bass set up (we'll see about that). I'm pretty excited about the available headroom that these amps should provide.

**B-string** · #16 04-11-2010, 12:26 PM

Just a tid bit....no concideration to S/N's during testing, only after my determination on which amp to pull and return. Amp I decided to keep in service higher S/N, amp to be returned lower S/N. Again this was not a concideration untill I needed to ID the correct box for repacking.

Zooberwerx · #17 04-11-2010, 01:06 PM

Just to clarify...

If you ran Amp A (mains) off the garage circuit and ran Amp B (subs...and the suspect amp!) off the kitchen circuit via a long-ass ext. cord, would the whole rig work properly?

What happens when you switch assignments (mains vs. subs) between the two power amps? For example, Amp A now runs the subs, Amp B handles the mains.

Upon removal of the DriveRack (I use one and love it)...

Did you run the mixer's left channel to Amp A and the right channel to Amp B, using each to power one of the mains? Did both power amps function properly simultaneously?

Edit: You did verify proper polarity at each receptacle, correct?

I hate gremlins!

Riis

T-Bird · #18 04-11-2010, 01:24 PM

Hi.

Something that is somewhat related to two SMPS acting weirdly that I had the unfortunate pleasure to troubleshoot, was two frequency converters messing up eachother (both within' the emissions parameters)

Since the construction and back-feed emissions with those two devices are of similar nature, could that be the problem?

We just installed second in-line filters to each devices power line and that cured it.

Does the EE guitarist have an oscilloscope he can use outside his workplace?
It might help narrow things down a bit if he'd measure whether the switching supplies were leaking a KHz range signal back to the wall-line. If either amp did and the other amps filter didn't block it (like it should) a symptom You described is one possibility.

Regards
Sam

Rebmo · #19 04-11-2010, 01:35 PM

I don't even know if this is related, but let me pass this along. The IPR 1600 we have seemed like it died and all I did was wiggle the 1/4" connection on the back and all was fine. It was a new plug, and works fine, just the female connector on the Peavey was touchy. I was perplexed as to the signals I was gettging, until I discovered this issue.

Reb

**B-string** · #20 04-11-2010, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

Just to clarify...

If you ran Amp A (mains) off the garage circuit and ran Amp B (subs...and the suspect amp!) off the kitchen circuit via a long-ass ext. cord, would the whole rig work properly?

What happens when you switch assignments (mains vs. subs) between the two power amps? For example, Amp A now runs the subs, Amp B handles the mains.

Upon removal of the DriveRack (I use one and love it)...

Did you run the mixer's left channel to Amp A and the right channel to Amp B, using each to power one of the mains? Did both power amps function properly simultaneously?

Edit: You did verify proper polarity at each receptacle, correct?

I hate gremlins!

Riis

I love having intelligent questions BTW

Yes I did all you questioned. Both amps would work in all configs if one was fed from the separate kitchen circuit (100 ft 10ga. three wire extension cord). Second amp after removal was never re-racked though, was about 8 feet away from the rack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-Bird

Hi.

Something that is somewhat related to two SMPS acting weirdly that I had the unfortunate pleasure to troubleshoot, was two frequency converters messing up eachother (both within' the emissions parameters)

Since the construction and back-feed emissions with those two devices are of similar nature, could that be the problem?

We just installed second in-line filters to each devices power line and that cured it.

Does the EE guitarist have an oscilloscope he can use outside his workplace?
It might help narrow things down a bit if he'd measure whether the switching supplies were leaking a KHz range signal back to the wall-line. If either amp did and the other amps filter didn't block it (like it should) a symptom You described is one possibility.

Regards
Sam

Used zero to three filters on the AC line with no change. He has my portable B-K, I could bring either my Sencore or Tectonics (heavy old scope) but at that point Peavey would need to pay for my services

. Not being snippy, I am an end user and my interest in the reason behind failure only goes to a point? If we didn't have so many gigs in the few coming weeks and I had more personal time to invest I might do the trouble shooting.

You have confirmed my suspicions though.