Italy vs. Denmark

**nostatic** · #1 03-31-2010, 03:37 PM

The brown truck dropped off the Italian team today. Should be interesting...

I'll try to do a vid A/B, as I have a pair of new AE112 cabs so I can set both up and go back and forth quickly using the same bass. It won't give the full flavor, but should show some of the differences.

Only had a few minutes to mess with it before having to get back to earning money to pay for it. First impressions on the LMT are highly favorable. As others have noted, it is voiced differently than the RH450. The LMT has less wool (lo mids) and more top end. I definitely like to roll the VTC off with the Sadowsky PJ and the LMT whereas I can leave it wide open on the RH450. The Rob Allen also has much more piezo "quack" with the LMT whereas the RH450 attenuates that. The VLE can turn the LMT more towards the RH450 tone, and I think I can find the right lo and lo-mid frequencies to work with on the RH450 to get it to sound close to the LMT (though without the extended top end).

The "tube" side doesn't give grit but does warm it up a bit, at the loss of a tad of articulation. I find that I like the SS and tube preamps mixed, much like I did with my Ashdown ABM-500. In fact this head reminds me of the Ashdown (except for 7lbs vs 31lbs), though the LMT is a bit more focused and articulate - over both my old Ashdown and the RH450. I don't know that I've ever heard the Sadowsky sound so balanced as with the LMT. The only downside is that the LMT is a much less forgiving amp. If you don't nail your notes you'll know it.

I have to run it at rehearsal to really get a feel though. That was all at "reasonable" volume with no other instruments. I can say that the Berg AE112 sounds *fantastic* with the LMT. The Berg sounds great with the RH450 as well, but I think it is a slightly better match with the LMT. I have an AE210 coming tomorrow so I'll get to compare further.

Musicman20 · #2 03-31-2010, 05:14 PM

Got to say despite loving my TC amp, the lm3 is staying put! I really like Markbass.

rodl2005 · #3 03-31-2010, 05:25 PM

Interesting. Looking fwd to the review!!! I use a Berg AE112 & LMII (usually w/ a VT bass pedal) & am certainly in agreement that this is a wonderful combination.

Big String · #4 03-31-2010, 05:30 PM

Well well .. the Planets are lining up.

I just got a Markbass F1 in a trade deal today and I must agree that my AE210 sounds fantastic with the F1. I did a bit of a/b-ing with my RH450 and both amps sound really good. It's been said many time "two flavors" of great. The F1 does bring out a bit more of the Sadowsky goodness on a more balanced level but I think that is just the additional clarity, whereas the RH450 is Fat City.

I'm anxious to hear NoStatic's take on the AE210/AE112 stackage.

I've got two great mini-amps now. Coolness.

Big String · #5 03-31-2010, 05:32 PM

On another note... Slight hi-jack

Can anyone tell me if the F1 can convert it's DI out to pre like the LMII ?? I would prefer the pre signal.

thanks if you can help.

Musicman20 · #6 03-31-2010, 05:47 PM

I want an F500!! Is it worth the extra over the F1?!

Jim C · #7 03-31-2010, 05:53 PM

Looking forward to the review; very happy with the LMII and SVT-CL and am interested where the TC fits in between these 2

**nostatic** · #8 03-31-2010, 07:51 PM

A first quick pass. Sadowsky PJ5, active but no treble or bass boost. VTC varied according to the comments. Each head has its own BergAE112 and an A/B switch. Files normalized in Logic after recording from a Zoom H4n (original levels were a bit low)

http://nostatic.com/mp3/mtc1.mp3

**nostatic** · #9 03-31-2010, 08:24 PM

Second pass with the Rob Allen.

http://nostatic.com/mp3/mtc2.mp3

Pic of the pair:

The basses:

svtb15 · #10 03-31-2010, 08:49 PM

I think the TC sound thicker in your recordings.. I personally prefer it over the MB tone

UncleBalsamic · #11 03-31-2010, 09:19 PM

Wow, that LMT sounds great with the Sadowsky and the Berg. Great clips!

Eublet · #12 03-31-2010, 09:31 PM

Cool stuff. I have to say, those clips really show the reasons why I love the TC head so much over other micro heads. It's just warm and round sounding. Really beautiful with both of those basses IMO. The upper notes have more body to them with the TC than the LMT. Of course, for all those reasons the "pingy" guys might not like the TC. To me, that's just the right sound for sitting in a mix.

Nice job recording this also. I like that you didn't try to play a bunch of licks. The simple approach of moving notes up and down and letting them ring out really helps to demonstrate the tone better. Thumbs up!

By the way, did I miss anything above in the way the TC was EQ'ed or Tubetoned (a new word!) in these recordings?

Jeff Scott · #13 03-31-2010, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big String

On another note... Slight hi-jack

Can anyone tell me if the F1 can convert it's DI out to pre like the LMII ?? I would prefer the pre signal.

thanks if you can help.

Yes.

Evolver · #14 03-31-2010, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svtb15

I think the TC sound thicker in your recordings.. I personally prefer it over the MB tone

Same here... I'm hearing more bottom with my AKG headphones at least (too late to run thru my monitors...). Thanks for the demos!

**nostatic** · #15 03-31-2010, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eublet

Cool stuff. I have to say, those clips really show the reasons why I love the TC head so much over other micro heads. It's just warm and round sounding. Really beautiful with both of those basses IMO. The upper notes have more body to them with the TC than the LMT. Of course, for all those reasons the "pingy" guys might not like the TC. To me, that's just the right sound for sitting in a mix.

Nice job recording this also. I like that you didn't try to play a bunch of licks. The simple approach of moving notes up and down and letting them ring out really helps to demonstrate the tone better. Thumbs up!

By the way, did I miss anything above in the way the TC was EQ'ed or Tubetoned (a new word!) in these recordings?

Thanks, I tried to make it simple with minimal variables. No spectracomp, no tube tone. Both amps are dead flat, and the LMT is full solid state for the preamp. I tried to give an idea of "out of the box".

Both amps actually have a lot of tone shaping. If I had to give a brief description I'd say that the LMT is more "neutral" while the RH450 is fatter with more wool. The RH450 of course has incredibly flexible eq and can get grit and more with the the tube tone. It cannot get the top end sizzle that the LMT can.

You can get a bit more warm/fat with the LMT by using the VLE. The tube/ss preamp blend also gives you a different feel. I found that running the VLE between 9-12 o'clock and running the tube/ss about 50:50 gave a nice punchy and warm tone. It still does not have the thickness that the RH450 has, but I think it is a bit more articulate. So it really depends on which you prefer. At this point I'm glad I went with this combo for main/backup and I'll likely switch back and forth between which is "main". TC wins on features, LMT wins on articulate tone, TC wins on warmth. I'm interested to hear the AE210, and especially use it in a band situation. The solo apartment test only gives you so much info.

Eublet · #16 03-31-2010, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nostatic

Thanks, I tried to make it simple with minimal variables. No spectracomp, no tube tone. Both amps are dead flat, and the LMT is full solid state for the preamp. I tried to give an idea of "out of the box".

Both amps actually have a lot of tone shaping. If I had to give a brief description I'd say that the LMT is more "neutral" while the RH450 is fatter with more wool. The RH450 of course has incredibly flexible eq and can get grit and more with the the tube tone. It cannot get the top end sizzle that the LMT can.

You can get a bit more warm/fat with the LMT by using the VLE. The tube/ss preamp blend also gives you a different feel. I found that running the VLE between 9-12 o'clock and running the tube/ss about 50:50 gave a nice punchy and warm tone. It still does not have the thickness that the RH450 has, but I think it is a bit more articulate. So it really depends on which you prefer. At this point I'm glad I went with this combo for main/backup and I'll likely switch back and forth between which is "main". TC wins on features, LMT wins on articulate tone, TC wins on warmth. I'm interested to hear the AE210, and especially use it in a band situation. The solo apartment test only gives you so much info.

Cool stuff. I was a LMII user when I picked up the RH450. I did a lot of comparing the two myself and have pretty much the same thoughts about the two as you do. I really, really loved the LMII, and I always ran with a bit of VLE engaged in a mix. When I was comparing the two heads, something just always felt right when I switched over to the RH450. It just had that mojo about it tonally, even with the Tubetone off. That's why I was wondering if you were using it in this clip because by comparison it just sounds so much warmer. I was wondering if you had it dialed up a little, but I guess you could get it even warmer!

gillento · #17 04-01-2010, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musicman20

Got to say despite loving my TC amp, the lm3 is staying put! I really like Markbass.

My words, Gareth

Now, I just whish I could get two AE112s!

Anyway, my db112 and 212 should arrive today

KJung · #18 04-01-2010, 05:42 AM

Nice! As we've discussed, it's a bit easier to move the LM to the TC tone with the wonderful VLE filter and a very slight cut in deep low end than it is to 'widen and brighten' the RH450 (although as you can hear on my comparison clip, you can get kind of close by widening and boosting both shelving points on the bass and treble, and adding a touch of upper mids around 2K or so).

Both sound great in their own way, and both are fabulous matches with the Bergantino AE410. I find the LM to sound pretty great with everything. Due to the much more voiced tonal footprint of the RH450, that head can sound great and not so great with various cabs. It sounds GREAT with the bright, aggressive AE cabs, which 'livens up' the tone of the TC a bit to my ear up top. The RH450/AE410 is my 'go to rig' with my Sadowsky... great mix and match to my ear.

KJung · #19 04-01-2010, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musicman20

I want an F500!! Is it worth the extra over the F1?!

Depends... flat, they are identical. F500 has mute switch, semi-parametric mids, and a more fully featured DI as positives. It has relatively difficult to see and use concentric EQ knobs on the negative side. Both are great, and to me, the main difference is the DI and the ability to drop the low mid center point a bit with some cabs. With the AE cabs, I prefer the F1... simple, and all I need to do is soften the upper mids a bit right around that default center point. With my 410UL, which is much deeper voiced and less punchy, the ability to dial up low mids set much lower than the F1 default is VERY helpful.

Musicman20 · #20 04-01-2010, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

Depends... flat, they are identical. F500 has mute switch, semi-parametric mids, and a more fully featured DI as positives. It has relatively difficult to see and use concentric EQ knobs on the negative side. Both are great, and to me, the main difference is the DI and the ability to drop the low mid center point a bit with some cabs. With the AE cabs, I prefer the F1... simple, and all I need to do is soften the upper mids a bit right around that default center point. With my 410UL, which is much deeper voiced and less punchy, the ability to dial up low mids set much lower than the F1 default is VERY helpful.

Thanks