Jess Oliver's legacy - AMPEG PORTAFLEX CLUB part 9

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

There's a rig in that picture? Didn't notice.



David, you have no idea how accurate that pic is when describing my "skills," although I did replace the grillcloth on my 810 last weekend and didn't staple myself once. Took almost 3 hours, though!

+1 Woha Doctor

[beans-on-toast]

Originally Posted by Bass 45

Do you know what differences I should expect from the 6L6's?

I think that if you want distortion, they would be worth trying. If you want a deep low end, stick with the 6L6GC's.

In general with the EL34's (aka 6BQ5), when the amp is pushed into distortion, there will be a richer harmonic content in the mids and highs, the lows will be diminished. The EL34's should also distort sooner.

This is a tube more often found in guitar amps. I liked them in the Traynor YBA Bass Master and Bass Mate amps. The voltages on the power tubes will affect how the EL34's will perform so the B15R's design will affect the extent to which these tones are heard.

[beans-on-toast]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I did replace the grillcloth on my 810 last weekend and didn't staple myself once. Took almost 3 hours, though!

How did it turn out? Did you manage to get some of the Heritage cloth?

I find grille cloths to be about the hardest thing on a cab to do.

[Bass 45]

Originally Posted by beans-on-toast

I think that if you want distortion, they would be worth trying. If you want a deep low end, stick with the 6L6GC's.

In general with the EL34's (aka 6BQ5), when the amp is pushed into distortion, there will be a richer harmonic content in the mids and highs, the lows will be diminished. The EL34's should also distort sooner.

This is a tube more often found in guitar amps. I liked them in the Traynor YBA Bass Master and Bass Mate amps. The voltages on the power tubes will affect how the EL34's will perform so the B15R's design will affect the extent to which these tones are heard.

Thanks for the input. I do usually prefer a deep/clean low end - but I would still like to try it sometime to experiment with the full range of possibilities with the amp.

[nouroog]

Originally Posted by Brams77

Eh..... back to my quest (something I feel I must try) I've spoken about it with Andersbass frequently..
I heard some great stories about the JBL D130F/140F the Altec 421A and the CTS or Celestion equivilent... Now I want to test this 15inch thing cos I am curious about it...
The 18inch in my18N is real great but I find it's missing somekind of mid range.. it obviously has enough lows... IS there anyone who can describe some differences between the 15inch speakers... I know they can make alot of difference so I'll try to get as much info as I can so I don't have to buy all speaker brands to get one that fits my needs Anyways I am in search of a more low mids with a little edge to it I play only p basses and they are about mids... To sum up low mids, a bit of grit and dark compressed sound... not boomy... muddy... I dont know I'll try to get some examples up from what I think the sound goal should be...

Hi everyone
for those interested, I made some more clips comparing the original CTS to a JBL D140F in my 73 B15N.
I also compared them to a 4ohms Weber ceramic bass speaker. I used different basses, playing the same line for easy comparison.

Recordings here
http://soundcloud.com/nouroog/sets/s...ison-clips-cts

Any comment or feedback appreciated!
jb

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by beans-on-toast

How did it turn out? Did you manage to get some of the Heritage cloth?

I find grille cloths to be about the hardest thing on a cab to do.

Yeah, it was a PITA. Wasn't perfect but looks good from a distance. And I used AV cloth because it was period correct, though I'd be lying if I said I didn't consider trying to get some.

[Brams77]

Originally Posted by nouroog

Hi everyone
for those interested, I made some more clips comparing the original CTS to a JBL D140F in my 73 B15N.
I also compared them to a 4ohms Weber ceramic bass speaker. I used different basses, playing the same line for easy comparison.

Recordings here
http://soundcloud.com/nouroog/sets/s...ison-clips-cts

Any comment or feedback appreciated!
jb

Oh wow, and you definitly can hear what each speaker does... But In the earlier comparision I like the JBL cos I thought it sounded fatter.
In this recording it's the other way around funny enough hehehe... Anyways if I was you I'll stick with that CTS in this setup you jhave it sounds awesome!

Thanks mate!

[nouroog]

Originally Posted by Brams77

Oh wow, and you definitly can hear what each speaker does... But In the earlier comparision I like the JBL cos I thought it sounded fatter.
In this recording it's the other way around funny enough hehehe... Anyways if I was you I'll stick with that CTS in this setup you jhave it sounds awesome!

Thanks mate!

Well from where I stand, if one of them deserves to be called "fat" sounding, it would be the CTS.
The first recording I posted the other day was done with pretty much the same settings, but different bass tones give more perspective.
I'm also interested how sweet the Weber sounded. Big low end and sweet top. Maybe less character than the other two. I need to play it some more to get a better idea, I did those clips real quick.
Thanks for listening!

[Brams77]

Originally Posted by nouroog

Well from where I stand, if one of them deserves to be called "fat" sounding, it would be the CTS.
The first recording I posted the other day was done with pretty much the same settings, but different bass tones give more perspective.
I'm also interested how sweet the Weber sounded. Big low end and sweet top. Maybe less character than the other two. I need to play it some more to get a better idea, I did those clips real quick.
Thanks for listening!

The Weber is interesting but does not impress me as much.. tho it sure is a nice sounding speaker tho.

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by Brams77

The Weber is interesting but does not impress me as much.. tho it sure is a nice sounding speaker tho.

Although the Weber is a more modern sounding speaker with the Jazz Bass and the Rickenbacker, I far prefer the sound of the CTS or JBL D140F for the Precision. It's interesting how nuanced and detailed the CTS actually sounds, up against a JBL 140F, that cost a lot more money. If my ears aren't deceiving me, it sounds like the CTS has better midrange definition and detail, while preserving the low end response. I'd still like to hear a B-15 or a B-15N(A,B, or C) with the factory upgrade D130F. Ampeg evidently made that choice for good reasons.

Ric

[coreyfyfe]

Originally Posted by Ric Vice

Although the Weber is a more modern sounding speaker with the Jazz Bass and the Rickenbacker, I far prefer the sound of the CTS or JBL D140F for the Precision. It's interesting how nuanced and detailed the CTS actually sounds, up against a JBL 140F, that cost a lot more money. If my ears aren't deceiving me, it sounds like the CTS has better midrange definition and detail, while preserving the low end response. I'd still like to hear a B-15 or a B-15N(A,B, or C) with the factory upgrade D130F. Ampeg evidently made that choice for good reasons.

Ric

This is how I felt about my eminece beta 15 (supposed to sound like a CTS) vs a JBL K140 in the double baffle cab, definitely more of what I remembered from my single baffle with the stock CTS. Not sure how different the D series speaker would have been. With all this speaker talk I'm really itching to get my reconed CTS back, should be leaving OCS by the end of the week

[beans-on-toast]

Originally Posted by nouroog

Hi everyone
for those interested, I made some more clips comparing the original CTS to a JBL D140F in my 73 B15N.
I also compared them to a 4ohms Weber ceramic bass speaker. I used different basses, playing the same line for easy comparison.

Recordings here
http://soundcloud.com/nouroog/sets/s...ison-clips-cts

Any comment or feedback appreciated!
jb

These demos are really neat! A pleasure to listen to. I'm kind of surprised by what I hear. I like them all and I think there is place for each speaker. I find that it's important to listen with a good set of headphones. I think that with a little EQ and volume adjustment, I would take any of them.

The CTS is really nice. It is well rounded, good for low end but articulate in the high end. There's a nice attack when the note is played that I don't hear from the other two speakers. As presented, I like it the most.

The JBL is smoother, more even over the entire range but seems to lack a bit of clarity that the others have. It sounds a little compressed. I think that it would open up if the volume were cranked more.

The Weber is a big surprise. It is very close to the CTS, it lacks the high end on the attack. I think that with a little EQ or volume adjustment, the Weber can sound as good as the CTS. The volume of the Weber is much lower through my computer speakers. It sounds fine with the headphones. Makes me wonder if people are turned off by the Weber because the level may be lower. Getting an 8 ohm version would make a difference I think.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by nouroog

Well from where I stand, if one of them deserves to be called "fat" sounding, it would be the CTS.
The first recording I posted the other day was done with pretty much the same settings, but different bass tones give more perspective.
I'm also interested how sweet the Weber sounded. Big low end and sweet top. Maybe less character than the other two. I need to play it some more to get a better idea, I did those clips real quick.
Thanks for listening!

I still go with the CTS on all samples. Totally thought I was hearing a 60's B-15, though. Didn't know it was a 73. The high end threw me. Then I realized you were using LaBellas...now it makes more sense to me For strings that are that thuddy, they sure are bright. I'm used to Chromes, which are almost all mids by comparison.

Dude, I'm almost ready to buy a 421a and send it to you just so we can hear how it sounds in comparison. Almost. And then I look at the bank account and I quickly forget about it

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I still go with the CTS on all samples. Totally thought I was hearing a 60's B-15, though. Didn't know it was a 73. The high end threw me. Then I realized you were using LaBellas...now it makes more sense to me For strings that are that thuddy, they sure are bright. I'm used to Chromes, which are almost all mids by comparison.

Dude, I'm almost ready to buy a 421a and send it to you just so we can hear how it sounds in comparison. Almost. And then I look at the bank account and I quickly forget about it

Well, Here's The Thing, If Someone Will Explain The In's and Out's Of Using Sound Cloud, I have a 421 8H (Series II) that I can post. It's definitely brighter and has better midrange definition than the JBL D140F.
The 421A's had Aluminum Voice Coil's, while the 421 8H's had Copper ones, and D130's had Aluminum voice coils? That evidently gives you better midrange definition. Another interesting thing, is that CTS, who eventually became Eminence, had a better handle on building speakers for the B-15's in the 60's, that were cheaper and sounded better. So even back then, CTS/ Eminence was a major player in customizing speakers for the needs of specific manufactures. There eventually coming out, as the biggest custom speaker company in the U.S. wasn't a fluke. That's interesting. Just my take though.

Ric

[JimmyM]

All you need for Soundcloud is to add the usual tags like an IMG tag...use "[ soundcloud ]" at the beginning of the URL, and ""[/ soundcloud ]" at the end, and omit the spaces that I included so you could see what was going on. Oh, and you need the Soundcloud account of course

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

All you need for Soundcloud is to add the usual tags like an IMG tag...use "[ soundcloud ]" at the beginning of the URL, and ""[/ soundcloud ]" at the end, and omit the spaces that I included so you could see what was going on. Oh, and you need the Soundcloud account of course

Jimmy,
Ok, I signed up, and with your info I can do a little sample tomorrow.

Ric

[Brams77]

Originally Posted by Ric Vice

Jimmy,
Ok, I signed up, and with your info I can do a little sample tomorrow.

Ric

Great! I'm be thrilled to hear those, prolly we all are!

[nouroog]

Thanks to everyone for listening, giving feedback and great comments! It's really appreciated.

Originally Posted by beans-on-toast

These demos are really neat! A pleasure to listen to. I'm kind of surprised by what I hear. I like them all and I think there is place for each speaker. I find that it's important to listen with a good set of headphones. I think that with a little EQ and volume adjustment, I would take any of them.

The CTS is really nice. It is well rounded, good for low end but articulate in the high end. There's a nice attack when the note is played that I don't hear from the other two speakers. As presented, I like it the most.

The JBL is smoother, more even over the entire range but seems to lack a bit of clarity that the others have. It sounds a little compressed. I think that it open up if the volume were cranked more.

The Weber is a big surprise. It is very close to the CTS, it lacks the high end on the attack. I think that with a little EQ or volume adjustment, the Weber can sound as good as the CTS. The volume of the Weber is much lower through my computer speakers. It sounds fine with the headphones. Makes me wonder if people are turned off by the Weber because the level may be lower. Getting an 8 ohm version would make a difference I think.

Well, David, to me you really nailed it through and through. I agree with very word here.
I was interested trying the Weber as a modern comparison to the two vintage speakers, and also to try the B15 with a 4ohms load, as I heard Oliver recommended it (although maybe he was only speaking for the 60's models?).
I was surprised by how good it sounded, especially in the lows, although as you stated, it lacks the high end clarity of the CTS to enhance the attack and get really punchy. It was indeed a bit quieter, and I will test it again with more gain and a little Eq, to hear its guts.

As for the JBL, I hope it will continue to open up as it breaks in, for I think it has been almost unused since 69, and I haven't played it much since I got it.

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I still go with the CTS on all samples. Totally thought I was hearing a 60's B-15, though. Didn't know it was a 73. The high end threw me. Then I realized you were using LaBellas...now it makes more sense to me For strings that are that thuddy, they sure are bright. I'm used to Chromes, which are almost all mids by comparison.

Dude, I'm almost ready to buy a 421a and send it to you just so we can hear how it sounds in comparison. Almost. And then I look at the bank account and I quickly forget about it

Well thanks Jimmy, that's a nice thought! Your bank account and mine must be linked to the same drilled pipe somewhere.
You can bring a 421a when you come visiting Paris, I'll make it up to you in Champagne
Anyway you're right about the strings, even though they're used, they keep a brightness that works well with the CTS high end.

Originally Posted by Ric Vice

Well, Here's The Thing, If Someone Will Explain The In's and Out's Of Using Sound Cloud, I have a 421 8H (Series II) that I can post. It's definitely brighter and has better midrange definition than the JBL D140F.
The 421A's had Aluminum Voice Coil's, while the 421 8H's had Copper ones, and D130's had Aluminum voice coils? That evidently gives you better midrange definition. Another interesting thing, is that CTS, who eventually became Eminence, had a better handle on building speakers for the B-15's in the 60's, that were cheaper and sounded better. So even back then, CTS/ Eminence was a major player in customizing speakers for the needs of specific manufactures. There eventually coming out, as the biggest custom speaker company in the U.S. wasn't a fluke. That's interesting. Just my take though.

Ric

Great! Really looking forward to hearing the 421a.

[muljoe]

Just finished my first studio session with my SB12. Just stuck a RE20 infront of the cab and used my Fenderish 62 J. Sounded good when doing line checks but blew me away when hearing it back with the rest of the tracks, it sat so well in the mix. I think the tracks are getting sent for mixing next week, so I'll post a track when I get it back. (A month or so?)

Thanks again for the help with the rattles...I am so excited to have a small tube amp to play when I don't feel like lugging around a full size rig.

[nouroog]

Originally Posted by muljoe

Just finished my first studio session with my SB12. Just stuck a RE20 infront of the cab and used my Fenderish 62 J. Sounded good when doing line checks but blew me away when hearing it back with the rest of the tracks, it sat so well in the mix. I think the tracks are getting sent for mixing next week, so I'll post a track when I get it back. (A month or so?)

Thanks again for the help with the rattles...I am so excited to have a small tube amp to play when I don't feel like lugging around a full size rig.

Sounds good!
How did you end up fixing the remaining rattle?
L plates? Glue?
I've got some rattle issues in my PF too, and I'm decided to investigate and try to fix them (better than sliding screwdrivers here and there between the tolex and the frame).