A Journey of DI-scovery

[P.Niggz]

Afternoon All,

This month I'm embarking on a new journey of DI discovery. I'm sick of engineers not allowing me to mic up my amp, even when I supply the mic and cable myself, so a good DI box is in order. No longer shall my Signal be tarnished by a behringer active DI box.

I've been looking at what I think are the obvious choices for top quality DI's which are the Avalon U5 and the A Designs REDDI, but does anyone have any other recommendations, both tube and SS.

In honesty I'm never gonna be 100% happy using any DI, but I suppose while I'm playing what is considered as "toilet tour" venues I've not got much choice against the moody in house live engineer.

At least my Hiwatt will be on stage for monitoring purposes.

[Mr. Pickles]

I've been using the Golden Age Pre 73, which is a well regarded Chinese "clone" of the Neve 1073. It retails for around $300 and is superb as a bass DI. It's pre is also killer if you decide to mic your amp (although you can't use the DI and mic-pre simultaneously). It's a half-rack design with an external power supply, FWIW.

I can't access Soundclick from work, but I'll try to post clips later.

edit - here's my post with review and (lame) clip:
Golden Age Pre 73 - my "go to" bass DI

[brekfustuvluzer]

ive got the aguilar db900 and i think it sounds fantastic.

[georgestrings]

Hard to go wrong with the Countryman 85 - I used to have the JDI, but it didn't sound that great with some of my passives... The Countryman sounds great with all my basses - both passive and active... I would've went with the J48, except I think that Countryman's approach of using either 9v or phantom power is a better idea than the phantom power only setup of the J48...


- georgestrings

[SteveC]

If you want some color the REDDI is supposed to have a "B-15 esque" flavor to it. The Avalon is a fav or mine. You see it used on a lot of touring rigs. Both are big and heavy. Either is good.

So is a simple Radial JDI or J48.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by georgestrings

Hard to go wrong with the Countryman 85 - I used to have the JDI, but it didn't sound that great with some of my passives... The Countryman sounds great with all my basses - both passive and active... I would've went with the J48, except I think that Countryman's approach of using either 9v or phantom power is a better idea than the phantom power only setup of the J48...


- georgestrings

+1 Total industry standard. Built like a tank, good with virtually any bass (active and especially passive), small, great sound, fits in the gig bag. Highly recommended if you don't need a lot of color and hooha in your signal to the board.

[MNAirHead]

I've paid to do sessions.. the producer paid to have me disconnect my Countryman85 and redo all the tracks with a JDI.

Much of if it sounds good is the combination of the bass.

-----

I own about 20 DI boxes... ranging from the $25 Rolls DB25 (probably the best budget DI)... all the way up to some of the "must have boxes"

I'll be the first to note, that the MXR M-80 is built like a tank, low cost and sounds equivalent to your average FOH guest.

I do not take out the Aguilar, ToneBone, RedDI, RedSquare (you get the point) to an average gig.

[svtb15]

If you are on a budget the Countryman Type 85 FET DI is great.. Its an Active DI.. can also take speaker line levels right off your amp speaker line with the flip of a switch on the front.. I bought mine in 1977 and still have it today. it can take HUGE voltage spikes...Highly recommend it..

I did a session last week for a christian artist in Texas.. He said just bring your basses, he has an Avalon U5.. I said well have you heard the REDDI.. he said no, have you heard the Avalon.. I said yes. Its great box. but ill still bring my REDDI.
Anyway, Im there a few minutes early and the engineer producer and myself are in the control room.. They had Nice gear. A Sony board with all custom API input channels etc.
The engineer wanted to AB the Avalon to the REDDI before we tracked the bass for real.
He took my bass, ran it into the Avalon U5 and the REDDI. Each DI went into a separate channel on the A-Design Pacifica preamp. then to the protools interface. everything gain matched, Avalon on flat setting..
We recored a minute or two of whole notes, 1/8 notes and a short pop snap or two.
They listened back to each..
The engineer said lets use the REDDI. .
The REDDI was just a much fuller bottom while retaining the mid and hi voicing. Much bigger overall. and sat in the track well.. The U5 did not sound bad at all . In fact we went through a few of the Avalons setting , since it has the presets.. Still the REDDI was the pick.
The engineer/studio bought a new REDDI this week...
This is not dissing the Avalon... Its a great unit..but the REDDI is a bass players friend...It works on syths, guitar with the Avid Eleven system, and even vocals in a good way.. but it doesnt have phantom. which im trying to get Peter from Reddi to implement at sometime in the future..

[P.Niggz]

Cheers for the replies chaps.

I was thinking of checking out a countryman as the producer we're using at the moment told me to get one.

Thinking about it, the "noise" parts of my bass playing would benefit from being nice and clean and DI like, but when I'm actually using my bass as a bass I think nothing will beat the nice grunt I'm getting through my amp.

Are there any DI's with effects loops before going back to the amp and to FOH. Ideally I'd like to stick an EQ and a compressor in my rig just for a little extra punch but sadly there isn't an effects loop on my Hiwatt so I don't know how else to do it.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by P.Niggz

Cheers for the replies chaps.

I was thinking of checking out a countryman as the producer we're using at the moment told me to get one.

Thinking about it, the "noise" parts of my bass playing would benefit from being nice and clean and DI like, but when I'm actually using my bass as a bass I think nothing will beat the nice grunt I'm getting through my amp.

Are there any DI's with effects loops before going back to the amp and to FOH. Ideally I'd like to stick an EQ and a compressor in my rig just for a little extra punch but sadly there isn't an effects loop on my Hiwatt so I don't know how else to do it.

I believe the newest version of the Sans Amp VT pedal now has a DI. That might be an option, since there are many guys on TB who use that pedal in front of a clean amp like the Markbass LMII to provide a bit of grunt and growl.

[P.Niggz]

Originally Posted by KJung

I believe the newest version of the Sans Amp VT pedal now has a DI. That might be an option, since there are many guys on TB who use that pedal in front of a clean amp like the Markbass LMII to provide a bit of grunt and growl.

Definitely an option I've thought of but it does make me feel like that 3 years of wage saving for the Hiwatt rig has gone to waste. It's annoying me because you wouldn't ask a guitarist to just DI. I'm guessing that's where this whole argument really starts

[KJung]

Originally Posted by P.Niggz

Definitely an option I've thought of but it does make me feel like that 3 years of wage saving for the Hiwatt rig has gone to waste. It's annoying me because you wouldn't ask a guitarist to just DI. I'm guessing that's where this whole argument really starts

I feel for you there. For the 'grindy tube amp into one way cab' guys, mic'ing is really the only way to get that tone to the board.

[svtb15]

The VT pedal is cool, I own one, and have used it at times for recording.. If you have a Hiwatt you know the answer.. its a mic.. a good mic.. an EV RE20 or Heil PR40 is sturdy for gigging.
The mic is use is a Neuman U87 or U47 FET.. but it NEVER goes out.. its wayyyyyyy too much $$$ to cart outside a house.
RE20 is my choice...

I would not use a bass drum designated mic like a D12.. they doesn't do it for me..

Another option is the Conutryman DI taking a line off the speaker out... the Countryman wil. take up to a 250V signal. But you must use your speaker cab with a tube amp. only thing it will not have the speaker cab tone which is so part of the overall tone.

Lastly, if you are able try a REDDI.. it really is different from everything that you have ever played or heard of.. Engineers , sound companies, players are not buying them up at the price for no reason at all. I am starting to see them everywhere on pro level tours, and studios as the DI to go to for instruments. there is nothing like it.. No Hype! Just trying to help you out..

Originally Posted by P.Niggz

Definitely an option I've thought of but it does make me feel like that 3 years of wage saving for the Hiwatt rig has gone to waste. It's annoying me because you wouldn't ask a guitarist to just DI. I'm guessing that's where this whole argument really starts

[JimmyM]

if you're using a hiwatt, i can't recommend speaker level di'ing highly enough. not quite the same as a mic, but much better than a plain vanilla di. i did it with a type 85 but i've done it with a jdi as well. most of radial's di's will do it. sounds a lot like a reddi when i do it with a b-15 or svt, really.

[svtb15]

+1
The type 85 may be the ticket here

Originally Posted by JimmyM

if you're using a hiwatt, i can't recommend speaker level di'ing highly enough. not quite the same as a mic, but much better than a plain vanilla di. i did it with a type 85 but i've done it with a jdi as well. most of radial's di's will do it. sounds a lot like a reddi when i do it with a b-15 or svt, really.

[johnboy65]

I recently did the same thing and it took me a lot longer than a month! I can't say enough good things about the ToneBone/BassBone DI. It sounds like the instrument you plug it into instead of the other way around. Since I've had it almost every soundguy has come up on stage and commented about the quality of my tone. Also it is the most usable in the sense that it's also a functioning pedal with a switchable FX loop, tuner out, boost and 2 channels if you want to run two basses or two different sounds on the same input.

I had a U5 (too much color for me and after bypassing the processing aspect of it, what's the point), JDI (very ok), J48 (WAAAY to clean for me), and several others.
I also liked The Brick and REDDI DI's, but for the $ I'm keeping the Bassbone

[svtb15]

Yeas.. Before i bought my REDDI i had a Brick for a few weeks.. I did send it back. I also sent UA Solo 610 back too... Never tried the tone bone..
I like a shorter signal path with less electronics.. Seems to work for me . and that is what i think the REDDI does. Very small signal path with a huge ( 1/2 coke can sized ) Output transformer. Its the Iron that makes it happen... I think. or at least its part of the total sound

[P.Niggz]

Originally Posted by svtb15

The mic is use is a Neuman U87 or U47 FET.. but it NEVER goes out.. its wayyyyyyy too much $$$ to cart outside a house.
RE20 is my choice...

I would not use a bass drum designated mic like a D12.. they doesn't do it for me..

Personally I'm not a fan of the u87 on my amp. I've got a matched pair and never really thought it sounded all that compared to other ways of using them, drum ambiences are the way forward. I've been thinking of getting an RE20 for my cabs so I'm glad you mentioned that, alternatively though sontronics have just released three new mics for drums and their kick drum condenser is supposed to sound immense on bass cabs. May check it out.

Originally Posted by JimmyM

if you're using a hiwatt, i can't recommend speaker level di'ing highly enough. not quite the same as a mic, but much better than a plain vanilla di.

I think I'm going to go down this route if I have to DI. I believe the countryman can take speaker level? Is that what the speaker in on the U5 is?

[svtb15]

I think you may like the RE20 then. It is wide and open on top and large diaphragm. Nice bass.. you know they do well for vocals too.
The Heil is a nice alternative too

Originally Posted by P.Niggz

Personally I'm not a fan of the u87 on my amp. I've got a matched pair and never really thought it sounded all that compared to other ways of using them, drum ambiences are the way forward. I've been thinking of getting an RE20 for my cabs so I'm glad you mentioned that, alternatively though sontronics have just released three new mics for drums and their kick drum condenser is supposed to sound immense on bass cabs. May check it out.



I think I'm going to go down this route if I have to DI. I believe the countryman can take speaker level? Is that what the speaker in on the U5 is?

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by P.Niggz

I think I'm going to go down this route if I have to DI. I believe the countryman can take speaker level? Is that what the speaker in on the U5 is?

yes.