is it just me... (amp wattage content)

[s_mcsleazy]

i use 50 tube watts and everytime im in the practace space i get the owner yelling at me saying im too loud (the amp is usually ony on about 4)

[JimmyM]

ya, the high power rig for local bars and theaters is one thing i don't think i'll ever get. the most high power rig i've ever owned was 500w. ok, sure, you can get a 1000w power amp for $250 so why not, but it doesn't make sense to me.

but the big cabs...those make sense no matter what volume you play at.

[Bass_Pounder]

Originally Posted by diechris

my question was to people that have "RIGS OF DOOM" and the question was

"what kind of bands are you people playing in that you need so many cabs and watts!?"

Originally Posted by MonsterTruck88

It's not just you. I play in a hardcore metal band with a loud drummer and two half stacks, and I do just fine with 300 watts and a 2x12. Bassists who need 500 watts and a full stack are either going deaf, or are only using 1/4 of their amps potential.

I guess I fall into the "rig of doom" category as I regularly gig with a Carvin B1500 into a Mesa RR1516BE cab.

I play straight forward rock & roll. However, we do not play clubs. All of our gigs are festival type shows, on big stages, and mostly outdoors.

I love my tone punchy and super clean. I probably do fall into the "1/4 potential" category also though as I rarely set my B1500 above "3" on the volume knob.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

ya, the high power rig for local bars and theaters is one thing i don't think i'll ever get. the most high power rig i've ever owned was 500w. ok, sure, you can get a 1000w power amp for $250 so why not, but it doesn't make sense to me.

but the big cabs...those make sense no matter what volume you play at.

Read post 6 again Actually, you are saying the exact opposite of reality. High power needs are directly linked to cabinet SPL, and doesn't really impact volume as much as you think. However, if you have a large or a small cab that is either high SPL (like a Berg AE) or low SPL (like an Acme), then to get the same 'moderate' volume with full, deep low end, the power needs can vary by a factor of 3 or 4 (i.e., 200 to 800 watts).

Also, the 'size' of a well designed cab (i.e., how many drivers it has) should have absolutely NO impact on the frequency response at all. For example, an Acme B110 sounds EXACTLY the same as an Acme 410, it just doesn't go as loud.

So, if you want a full, deep tone but don't need a ton of volume, it is typically MUCH better to get a small cab appropriately tuned and apply more power, versus a large, high SPL cab with low power, since SPL (typically measured in the upper midrange) is HIGHLY correlated with the low end response of most cabs.

Again, talking about 'why would anyone need x amount of watts' is literally a meaningless discussion without taking the contexts I outline in post 6 into account.

[mpdd]

to the original poster, i admire you for your bravery to post this, i remember playing in pizza places, dive bars, art galleries, basements, and living rooms in ohio and thinking that the music was so loud (sometimes you couldn't even hear the drums) that my nose was going to start bleeding and that there were probably pets nearby having seizures or strokes, i have never played for more than 250 people so for me the rig of doom seems insane, i could never imagine needing more than 120 watts tube or 200 watts ss for my lo fi rock and roll fun

[KJung]

I give up

[Zentner]

Originally Posted by diechris

ok.. sorry didnt want this to turn the way it did... im not trying to show off efficiency on stage with a small rig...

I know that

companies dont really have a standard as far as watts

that typically you dont need much because of FOH

that there is no right answer for how much watts someone needs...




my question was to people that have "RIGS OF DOOM" and the question was

"what kind of bands are you people playing in that you need so many cabs and watts!?"

I have played gigs with My Ric B-115 head (100W) atop a 6x10.

I have also played gigs with an Ampeg V9 (300W)-> Sunn 4x15 and Peavey classic 400 (400W)-> Traynor 2x15.... all at the same time- simply because I can.

I play in a ridiculously loud grind band. People who want to hear our band leave the venue and listen outside where things are audible. People who want to experience our band will stay inside and watch total destruction.

Bottom line: I respect and applaud people who own micro rigs, Hifi rigs, digital amplifiers, etc. You are smart people. You will still have your backs when you're 50. I am putting together a Glockenklang rig right now, and it's going to sound phenomenal once it's completed.

I am in my early 20's, very athletic, and when I want to move 475lbs of bass rig to each show- I will. Aaaaaand you'll never hear a bass rig that sounds like mine. I understand it's completely impractical.... I also own 30" Rickenbacker cabinets that handle 60watts each. There is NOTHING practical about that, but I bet you've never heard a speaker that sounds like it either.

Cheers to all bass players, whether your gear is heavy or light, so long as you sound like you want to- it's all that matters!

[Christian Waiau]

Originally Posted by Zentner

I have played gigs with My Ric B-115 head (100W) atop a 6x10.

I have also played gigs with an Ampeg V9 (300W)-> Sunn 4x15 and Peavey classic 400 (400W)-> Traynor 2x15.... all at the same time- simply because I can.

I play in a ridiculously loud grind band. People who want to hear our band leave the venue and listen outside where things are audible. People who want to experience our band will stay inside and watch total destruction.

Bottom line: I respect and applaud people who own micro rigs, Hifi rigs, digital amplifiers, etc. You are smart people. You will still have your backs when you're 50. I am putting together a Glockenklang rig right now, and it's going to sound phenomenal once it's completed.

I am in my early 20's, very athletic, and when I want to move 475lbs of bass rig to each show- I will. Aaaaaand you'll never hear a bass rig that sounds like mine. I understand it's completely impractical.... I also own 30" Rickenbacker cabinets that handle 60watts each. There is NOTHING practical about that, but I bet you've never heard a speaker that sounds like it either.

Cheers to all bass players, whether your gear is heavy or light, so long as you sound like you want to- it's all that matters!

i like your thinking..... i got a super light weight loud rig right now.. i think the whole thing comes in under 70lbs... for EVERYTHING


however... now that we have a big trailer... I wouldnt mind having a rig that LOOKS huge as well as sounds huge.

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by diechris

my question... is what kind of bands are you people playing in that you need so many cabs and watts!?

Im not against it..

Ive had an svt-ii and carvin b1500.. runnings 810s... but they were all over kill...


Ok... so I play in a pretty damn loud band.

loud drummer...
two guitarist with mesa 412s
one krank 120 watt all tube
one peavey 6505 120 watt all tube..

both guitar amps cranked up..


I've been able to stay very audible in the mix and on stage with using a

800rb w/1x10 on a 1x15
800rb w/1x15
mb2-500(never past noon) w/ 210212

and now a 100 watt ampeg v4 w/210212 with the ampeg never past 1 o'clock...


I've played stages from huge amphitheater to dive bar with the same guys...


my settings are usually

slight bump on the the mids and highs with a slight cut on the bass..



not looking to start fights... but i would love to have some reason to go crazy with a couple huge rigs for gigs that actually require them

im simply in awe of guys that say they absolutely need more then 500 watts and a couple 810s...

A couple of things here:

My current main band has 2 guitards, both playing thru Mesa 412s, one with a Triple Rec, the other with a 6505+, and we have a fairly loud drummer... I have to use - at a minimum - either a 610 or an 810 to be able to hear myself decently, and the guitards post volume settings are at 3 or under...

I can tell you that without a doubt, your guitards are NOT "cranked up" if you were able to gig with an 800rb and the cabs you've described...

Currently, I'm using either a Mesa Big Block 750 or a 700rb-II for amps, and either a PH610 or an SVT810e for cabs... We're playing anything from 80s rock to modern rock to metal, and we're "loud"... If I tried to get away with using only a 410, I would be unable to hear myself well enough to be able to play well... We rarely play a place that holds under 300, and usually play places that hold 400-500, so maybe that has something to do with it - but what you were saying didn't add up to me, given my current situation...



- georgestrings

[pedalguy1]

I run a 225 watt tube head into 2 4x10's. Back in my old band (progressive metal) It was complete anarchy. The volume wars were getting old. (we actually wore earplugs to practice, thank God) It helped me be heard though. I also didnt mind the wall of bass at my back that i could feel with each note. Amps are funny things though, we can go from a 5 watt practice amp to a 1000+ poweramp, and for what? I guess headroom is good. You need to have a lot of power to have deep and clean bass sounds, but when is enough enough? I mean we could literally all go trade in our amps for in ear moniters and just crank them up as loud as we like. (sorry if I deviated there)

[MIJ-VI]

Originally Posted by Zentner

I have played gigs with My Ric B-115 head (100W) atop a 6x10.

I have also played gigs with an Ampeg V9 (300W)-> Sunn 4x15 and Peavey classic 400 (400W)-> Traynor 2x15.... all at the same time- simply because I can.

I play in a ridiculously loud grind band. People who want to hear our band leave the venue and listen outside where things are audible. People who want to experience our band will stay inside and watch total destruction.

Bottom line: I respect and applaud people who own micro rigs, Hifi rigs, digital amplifiers, etc. You are smart people. You will still have your backs when you're 50. I am putting together a Glockenklang rig right now, and it's going to sound phenomenal once it's completed.

I am in my early 20's, very athletic, and when I want to move 475lbs of bass rig to each show- I will. Aaaaaand you'll never hear a bass rig that sounds like mine. I understand it's completely impractical.... I also own 30" Rickenbacker cabinets that handle 60watts each. There is NOTHING practical about that, but I bet you've never heard a speaker that sounds like it either.

Cheers to all bass players, whether your gear is heavy or light, so long as you sound like you want to- it's all that matters!

I sincerely and respectfully hope that you and your band mates use proper hearing protection.

There's a link to an informal hearing test in my sig. It alerted me to the sobering fact that I now can't hear above 8 kHz...

[Destructobot]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

but the big cabs...those make sense no matter what volume you play at.

+1

[Destructobot]

Originally Posted by MIJ-VI

I sincerely and respectfully hope that you and your band mates use proper hearing protection.

There's a link to an informal hearing test in my sig. It alerted me to the sobering fact that I now can't hear above 8 kHz...

I could hear 16khz at -66db with the fan running on my laptop. 12khz at -80db.

Opps, had the volume down on the headphones.

[Christian Waiau]

12hz -72 and 16 -54 with my dog chewing a bone in the room

[Pickebass]

KJung said it best. It's a combination of speakers, wattage etc. But most of all it's about tonal goals. I play in a jazz/r&b band and I need about 750 watts. On the other hand, I'm playing with another band with the same instrumentation and I used my line 6 lowdown 110 for practice and have taken it to a gig (with a good soundman).

The situation is better because these guys understand how to have a musical conversation so no one is playing over each other. IMO, IME when the band understands voicings and arrangement the band can be more musical AND needs less volume to make music.

Most of you volume needs are due to competing to be heard. This is not an insult to your musicianship, just something that is commonly overlooked by guitar and keyboard players who are playing over each other.

[philvanv]

Okay so I was using a SUNN coliseum for many yrs. I recently down sized because I thoughtI was finished playing except in the house. So I found a nice, perfectly priced SUNN stage 115 combo. 50 +watts, 4ohm with a 15" speaker. Well apparently I'm going to be back playing with so old friends that still play at clubs etc. I've never had to worry about sound. I think it's time to worry, maybe not. My question, is there a way to get a little boost in sound by adding ? something to the combo?

[jellymax]

Originally Posted by Mr. Foxen

Doom bands. Typically gigs with no PA and a high expectation of low end SPL.

this^

as a teenager, we played many raging parties--no PA support
obviously. so i carried some heavy gear. back then a 300 watt
bass amp was for rich kids, every one else got by with much less

as we moved up the food chain, we played on some well equipped stages. less need for 2 big cabs

[msaone]

Used to break at least a string a week, finally realized it was because I couldn't hear myself.

I started with a peavey tnt130, then off to a fender BXR100. That's where I realized I simply wasn't able to hear myself.

Enter my rumble set up. A 350 head atop a 410 cab. I can finally hear myself, my wrist doesn't hurt at the end, and I don't have to buy a set of strings every week.

[Kmonk]

I am guilty of using more gear than I need to. My current setup is 2 SVT 6 Pro Heads (1,100 watts each) with 4 SVT 410HE cabs because I like the way they sound. I use one stack on my side of the stage and the other on the guitar player's side. Sometimes I use my early 70s SVT head and 810 Cab. The truth is that in most situations, your amp should be nothing more than a stage monitor. High powered amps were developed before the use of PA for instruments and vocals became popular. Look at artists like Eric Clapton. Small combo amps running through a PA. I recently played with a guitarist who had a 30 watt amp and had no problem hearing him even in rehearsal without PA support. I think may of us think we need a lot of power and cabs because it looks cool or we do not know any better. You can get a great sound out of a quality combo amp running through a PA and have a more balanced sound than relying on stage volume.

[NYCbassist]

Originally Posted by philvanv

Okay so I was using a SUNN coliseum for many yrs. I recently down sized because I thoughtI was finished playing except in the house. So I found a nice, perfectly priced SUNN stage 115 combo. 50 +watts, 4ohm with a 15" speaker. Well apparently I'm going to be back playing with so old friends that still play at clubs etc. I've never had to worry about sound. I think it's time to worry, maybe not. My question, is there a way to get a little boost in sound by adding ? something to the combo?

How about a 112 Powered PA enclosure?? Someone on her just posted about one. I'll find it & post the link here