Kappalite Alternatives? Be Gentle!

knigel · #1 07-27-2011, 09:55 PM

I promise I have searched thoroughly before posting this.

I recently picked up a pair of Sonic 115 cabs for a ridiculously low price. They seem to be pretty well built, despite the fact that they are cat hair magnets. These guys:

Sonic Speaker Bass Guitar Series-115TL

Only the speaker is centered in the cab, and reminds me a bit of the Joe's bass cab I had. It is very similar to the TL606 design. I figure they'll be a decent alternative to my Avatar 410 (and planned move to the Genz Benz Neo 212) that I can leave at my practice space and not worry about too much.

But man, are they heavy. They are currently loaded with JBL 2225H speakers. They sound pretty good, I guess, not hi-fi by any means. I used one at a show the other night, and it did the trick. It was enough to keep up with a DeVille and a Twin with my GBE600.

So I am looking for suggestions that might work with that box that are light and cheap. They don't have to sound premium, but get me mostly there. I realize that Kappalites are probably the best option (for cabs without tweeters and mid range drivers and crossovers and other things I don't quite understand), and I have looked into Basslites. I've also looked into Carvin Neo 15s, and Peavey Pro Neos (or whatever the actual names are).

What other speakers might you recommend? What are the "stats" that I should look out for? Xmax--what's a decent range?

You are welcome to check out my band (in my sig) to get an idea of what we play, but if not, we were recently described as "Built to Spill with your $%#%#s out." (which is odd since our drummer is a lady). Bravo if that means anything to you--I'm basically shooting for the James Gang thing.

knigel · #2 07-27-2011, 09:59 PM

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/2225hj.pdf

I thought I'd post this, and maybe you can help me compare.

http://www.carvinguitars.com/manuals/tsp.html

That's the Carvin. 3 Xmax seems bad. Is it bad? What numbers should I be focusing on?

rpsands · #3 07-27-2011, 10:52 PM

Depends on the wattage you're using. With 50 watts/woofer, Carvin or PR15's would be fine choices. With two PR15 neos or Carvin 15 neos you'd be plenty loud enough as long as you're careful not to pop them - the 600 probably could if pushed hard.

There are not a lot of economical choices with neos right now. Wanna shave the weight, gotta bite the bullet

Basslites are not good at behaving in boxes that small so steer clear.

knigel · #4 07-28-2011, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

With 50 watts/woofer, Carvin or PR15's would be fine choices.

Something tells me you are being sarcastic....

Thanks for the heads up on the Basslite--definitely was a contender. I didn't really consider the Peavey or the Carvin--I'm not that great about the specs, but they do seem chintzy.

Looks like I AM going to have to bite the bullet on Kappalites, unless someone has other ideas?

dhsierra1 · #5 07-28-2011, 04:23 PM

there are a few other neo choices in the Eminence line like the Deltalites or the S2515 but you'd have to do some modelling to tell if that's gonna work or not in that box.

rpsands · #6 07-28-2011, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knigel

Something tells me you are being sarcastic....

Thanks for the heads up on the Basslite--definitely was a contender. I didn't really consider the Peavey or the Carvin--I'm not that great about the specs, but they do seem chintzy.

Looks like I AM going to have to bite the bullet on Kappalites, unless someone has other ideas?

I was not being sarcastic, just giving you some power guidelines.

If it were me and I were always going to use two cabs I would get the Peavey PR15's. They are very cheap, and loud per watt, with decent low end.

No way you'd get by with one though.

knigel · #7 07-28-2011, 04:48 PM

Ahhh, I was joshing you about the sarcasm! By the way this

Quote:

Less Ebay, more Mel Bay

cracks me up!

I'm going to look at the Peaveys a bit more. It would probably be 2 115s or, with a single cab, my Avatar 410. Maybe 1 115 for a VERY low volume gig (probably not with this band, but possibly another project). Maybe the Peavey is where it's at for me? A low cost solution that could shave 30-35 pounds off the weight of these cabs--that's nothing to sneeze at!

Downunderwonder · #8 07-28-2011, 05:32 PM

What very little I know suggests replacing a JBL with a Kappalite would be unlikely to sound any good. The kappa moves some serious air so its ideal tuning must be further away from the JBL's than others.

If you measure the box internal volume and porting etc dimensions someone can give you a very good recommendation.

knigel · #9 07-28-2011, 05:46 PM

I might be wrong, but I thought I read that the Kappalites were pretty forgiving re: cab size. And the thing with these Sonics is that they came unloaded, so I couldn't even tell you if THEY (the JBLs) are any good.

External dimensions are 16 x 20 x 24, minus 1.5 all the way around for 3/4 plywood. Does insulation count? Call it 14 x 18 x 22 ish? Port on the bottom? Make sense to anyone?

will33 · #10 07-28-2011, 06:57 PM

Roughly 3.2 cu.ft. Need the dimensions of the port(s) as well to see what adjustments might be needed. From the pic there looks to be enough area you could block off a portion to lower tuning if needed without chuffing, that makes it easier.

knigel · #11 07-28-2011, 07:06 PM

There are two ports on the bottom that measure 15 x 10.5 x 2.5. The divider goes all the way to the back of the cab.

I know I sound like an idiot, but this is very new to me. If you want to know what to feed your dog I'm aces, but reading speaker specs has made me prone to seizures. If somebody could say, "Ok, you've got that old speaker cab, when you are looking for a replacement speaker, this thing in this range, and this thing in this range, and this thing here will probably be okay." Less bass, more mid is fine with me if that helps. My brain only allows me to play four strings, and I'll probably never downtune, so E is the low note. Does any of this info help?

The Peavey may do the trick, also about to research the ~~Eminence Alpha~~ nope...just looking for a little guidance I guess. The end product only has to be passable (I know, where do I get off with my fussiness and huge ego?)

How about the Eminence Beta? Would that work all right in this cab? Seems to have the right weight/cost/sound ratio.

rpsands · #12 07-28-2011, 09:34 PM

3015's (not LF's) can go from 2.5 to 3.8cf with tuning ranging from 40 to 55hz and sound good doing it.

Pretty big flexibility.

Do NOT use one Peavey PR15N with a 4x10. The PR15 would be a good match for a 2x10 with Peavey PR10N's, but not a 4x10 with Avatar's high xmax deltalites.

DukeLeJeune · #13 07-28-2011, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knigel

There are two ports on the bottom that measure 15 x 10.5 x 2.5. The divider goes all the way to the back of the cab.

Thanks for this additional information. My guess is the tuning frequency is in the lower 40's, which imho is a bit lower than ideal for most 15" bass guitar woofers but still useable.

If you're looking to keep costs down, you might consider the Legend CA154 or Legend CA158, depending on whether you want a 4 ohm cab or an 8 ohm cab.

knigel · #14 07-28-2011, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

Do NOT use one Peavey PR15N with a 4x10. The PR15 would be a good match for a 2x10 with Peavey PR10N's, but not a 4x10 with Avatar's high xmax deltalites.

No no, definitely not. Either 115, 2 115s, or the 410. Avoid mixing drivers--that should be part of the oath you swear when joining tb.

knigel · #15 07-28-2011, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DukeLeJeune

If you're looking to keep costs down, you might consider the Legend CA154 or Legend CA158, depending on whether you want a 4 ohm cab or an 8 ohm cab.

Looking to trim weight first, then balance cost. Going to go with a pair of 8 ohms. I'll look those up!

Did find a good deal on Eminence Beta 15As. Good fit for this box, or any opinions on the matter? "No" is a fine answer!

Eminence Beta Speakers - Eminence Beta 15A speaker. The Eminence Beta 15A is a 15" 8 ohm speaker. The Eminence Beta 15" speakers are rated at 350 watts RMS. Eminence Beta 15A speakers here.

knigel · #16 07-31-2011, 02:27 PM

Does anyone have info on the Betas, and if they would work in this cab? Or Deltas?

Even if someone could tell me what to look for I'd appreciate it. Like, "for the volume of air your cabs have, look at this spec in this range, this spec in this range, and this is this range."

I feel another seizure coming on...

DukeLeJeune · #17 07-31-2011, 03:43 PM

The Beta 15A will give you a very big upper bass hump in that box. Even in a heavily stuffed sealed box, you'll still get considerable emphasis of the upper bass region.

If weight is your primary concern rather than cost, I recommend the Deltalite 2512 or Kappalite 3015.

OzzyGreg · #18 08-01-2011, 01:54 AM

.
Man, bite the bullet and buy the Kappalites.

I stuffed around with cheaper speakers for years and recently thought: "I've had enough of this."

I bought a pair of Kappalite 3012s and built a fEarful cab to suit them.
What a difference!

I will never go the "cheap" way ever again with bass speakers.
You definately get what you pay for!
There really is no sustitute for quality/power.

Greg

rad bassman · #19 08-01-2011, 06:17 AM

some would disagree i suspect but i recently purchased a 3015LF for my fEARfull project, whilst im waiting for my build to finish im using the 3015LF in my crappy peavey box, originally loaded with a BW 350 watt 4 ohm speaker,

the cab sounded alot fuller, the top end drop off could be considered a negative but to me its drastically improved the sound, and compliments my 2x10 warwick cab nicely with added bottom end.

i couldn't use both cabs with the 4 ohm BW 15" installed so had an old 15" 8 ohm JBL 2225 that i had lurking doing nothing, this full range speaker did not pair well with the 2x10, but the 3015 LF does.

not saying you should base you decision on my post but it may be worth considering depending on what your trying to achieve

Kirkowitz · #20 08-01-2011, 06:38 AM

Many of the experts have already chimed in here.....

Although I'm far from an expert, I would like to put a big +1 to the non-LF 3015's in those boxes. I've heard them in similarly sized/ported cabs and they sounded fantastic.
I would hang onto the JBL's until you're sure the neo speaker thing works for you.