Keyboards vs. Bass Cabs

pachius · #1 04-08-2010, 06:04 PM

hear me now.

i`m a recent owner of a obc115 and a avatar 210neo. my bass rig got really big compared to my keyboard rig and I normally gig more playing keys around various bars and stuff. my keyboard amp is dying and I was wondering if I could use the 210neo with my keyboard? will it damage my avatar speakers? will it sound good? i was thinking of buying a smaller amp head that isn't as heavy as a SVT to gig around with my keys and the 210`s.

RickenBoogie · #2 04-08-2010, 06:40 PM

It's fine. I've often used my bass gear to amplify an analog synth. No problem.

craig.p · #3 04-08-2010, 07:01 PM

I'd be careful running an SVT into a pair of tens.

Tone-wise I don't think you'll get the presence/immediacy with two tens + tweeter you'd get with a true full-range cab. Keyboards are mostly midrange + harmonics thereof. But like anything else, "it depends." It won't cost you anything to try it live & see if it works or doesn't work.

Regarding damage, just keep your ears wide open for signs of distress, especially on attack. Can't stress this enough, especially with that cab & with the dynamic reserves an SVT is capable of.

pachius · #4 04-09-2010, 12:59 AM

thanks for the heads up!
what do you mean by a 'true full-range cab'? i`m guessing its not going to sound as incredible as having an SVT running through a 8x10 but it might have an interesting tone?
i`m still waiting on the arrival of all this new gear, so I still cant say anything for sure.

craig.p · #5 04-09-2010, 04:38 AM

By a full-range cab I mean something that reproduces the full audio range or at least reasonably close to it, without unreasonable peaks and dips, and with reasonable projection into the audience.

Your current setup will probably sound better than an 8x10 simply because there's at least some coverage at frequencies above the ten-inchers' capabilities. The problem is, it's suboptimal for keyboards in my opinion. Can you EQ around it? To some extent, yes. But I've never been a big fan of applying EQ to a rig with the goal of making it less unsuitable for an application it's being forced into.

I've got no feelings one way or the other for Carvin, but let's take a look at their LS1503 and its larger brother the LS1523 at http://www.carvinguitars.com/ls/ and http://www.carvinguitars.com/manuals...D-LS-SPKRS.pdf. See the attention being paid to the midrange? These things are designed to provide a flat response -- look at the -3dB points. This is what will add life and immediacy to keyboards. Problem is, these cabs aren't really for bass, and you don't want to EQ more bass into them because you'd probably start flapping the woofer cone(s). These are reflex cabs, after all. You might get by if you EQ'd way above the low-end spec AND used a sharp subharmonic filter, though.

What about sidestepping the bass-vs-keyboards compromise altogether and considering a dual-use cab such as a Fitzmaurice Omni 12 at http://billfitzmaurice.com/Omni12.html? If I were in your place that's the option I'd take in a heartbeat. That cab was designed to do exactly what you want, for both the instruments you play.

pachius · #6 04-10-2010, 02:30 AM

thanks a lot for that info.

it makes sense that bass speaker cabs are made so that low frequencies are easily attainable. keyboards do sound their best when its coming out of a amp that has a flat EQ, so bass cabinets are not the best way to get a good all around keyboard sound.

i could still go for it just to see how it sounds.

JimmyM · #7 04-10-2010, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pachius

thanks a lot for that info.

it makes sense that bass speaker cabs are made so that low frequencies are easily attainable. keyboards do sound their best when its coming out of a amp that has a flat EQ, so bass cabinets are not the best way to get a good all around keyboard sound.

i could still go for it just to see how it sounds.

sorry (actually in your case i'm not sorry because it works to your benefit), but that's wrong. a bass amp and 210 neo cab would be ideal for keyboards. might have to roll some low end off the amp to keep it from stepping on the bass player, but not only can you use something like that for keyboards, since it has a tweeter you will get all the highs you need out of it as well as the mids and lows. and unlike a lot of keyboard amps, it won't fart out on you if you need to kick left handed bass.

and use that svt, too. my 69 svt used to belong to the original keyboard player for iron butterfly. he ran a b-3 and an electric piano through it. bass amps rock for keyboards. i wish more keyboard players would use them instead of those tinny keyboard amps.

jokerjkny · #8 04-10-2010, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

It's fine. I've often used my bass gear to amplify an analog synth. No problem.

me too,

and frankly, if i could...

i'd use my little phatty for everything...

pachius · #9 04-12-2010, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

and use that svt, too. my 69 svt used to belong to the original keyboard player for iron butterfly. he ran a b-3 and an electric piano through it. bass amps rock for keyboards. i wish more keyboard players would use them instead of those tinny keyboard amps.

I have heard that keyboards coming out of Fender Twin Reverbs sound incredible thanks to that awesome clean sound, so I always thought that an SVT would make a Nord Electro sound epic.

thanks for the motivation, Jimmy.

craig.p · #10 04-12-2010, 06:03 AM

I hate to keep beating on this point but there's a huge difference between acceptable and the proper solution. Bass cabs, whether or not there a tweeter along for the ride, may get you by, but as soon as you play keyboards through a full-range cab, or at least through a cab where proper midrange coverage has been engineered in, you'll do so many forehead slaps you'll knock yourself back on your butt. A bass cab, with or without a tweeter, is a poor match to the frequency range where keyboards generate the bulk of their energy. It wouldn't surprise me if it were almost the negative image, frequency plot-wise, of what would work best. The problem will become especially acute at volume. Lone voice in the wilderness again but I don't care.

uglyrumor · #11 04-12-2010, 07:31 AM

You mean a GOOD bass speaker system. The bass amplifier amplifies...that's what it does, and handles keys wonderfully. Speakers can be very specific, and I wouldn't want to run an 18" with a 150 Hz. top and expect to hear Jimmy McGriff, but with good full range or close speakers, a great bass amp (SVT, Bassman, etc.) would sound great (if the keyboardist can play to start with). Any bass speaker built before 1990 or so should be fine, as most of them were full range anyway.