Which knobs/eq add to "farty" sound on GK RB amps & GK cabs?

mouthmw · #1 11-20-2011, 10:07 AM

I've been playing a while on my GK 700RB II and GK NEO 412, and at times I love the sound I get, but sometimes there's that farty, not pleasant type of distortion, and kind of a lack of fullness.
It sounds a lot more aggressive than it did with my Ampeg 810 cab, and I already made a thread about that so I won't go into that much.

Anyways, I can't really find the perfect combination of knob settings that won't produce that farty tone at times.
Like yesterday, I guy had an Ashdown EVO III amp, and I think a 210 Ashdown cab and it sounded great on a big stage. That the amp shut down (a house amp), so he borrowed my rig. The fullness of sound was gone and replaced by a more aggressive, colder sound. I was like "you've got to be kidding me, an Ashdown with a puny cab is beating my big rig?". After our set, a chick bassist played on an unknown (to me) amp, and what looked like a 410 Marshall cab. Again, seemed to have a great, fuller sound than I had.
What am I doing wrong?
I usually set my Volume (preamp gain) to 11, presence and countour off, my EQ close to flat (I tried lowering treble and high mids), boost to 2-3, woofer to 2-3. My woofer high cut is on. I rarely use tweeter, only for 1 or 2 songs, and then the tweeter is noon.

bongomania · #2 11-20-2011, 10:41 AM

One thing I notice is you are using the word "woofer", which means you are using controls meant for the GK bi-amp system, which the 412 doesn't have. You may also be using a cable or an output jack that are meant for the bi-amp system. If any of that's the case, you are only sending part of your signal to the speakers, and using EQ to compensate, but running out of wattage fast.

The other thing is setting boost and low EQ to high settings like 2-3 is pretty much a recipe for farting out, because you're asking the cones for more excursion than they can provide.

Try to confirm you are using only the full-range output and cable, and see if you can get a big low end sound without boosting the lows. It should be possible; try cutting highs instead. Also, the RB has an inherent mid-scoop even with the knobs at noon, so you might get the warm sound you want by cutting both highs and lows, maybe even boosting the low mids a bit.

Slowgypsy · #3 11-20-2011, 11:20 AM

Boosting low mids to 2/3:00 is a good thing to try. Any pedals in the mix? What bass are you using... active or passive? My point is that the amp settings are just a part of the equation. Also, you're comparing your 4x12 cab to several others using only 10's. Maybe cab's with 12's aren't your thing?

scottfeldstein · #4 11-20-2011, 11:20 AM

Yeah, I'm betting on misuse/misunderstanding of the equipment.

mouthmw · #5 11-20-2011, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

One thing I notice is you are using the word "woofer", which means you are using controls meant for the GK bi-amp system, which the 412 doesn't have.

Where do you get your misinformation from people?

The GK NEO 412 does have the GK biamp system, and yes, I'm using it in biamp mode, with a proper GK speakon cable (that I got with the cab), and both woofer and tweeter controls work fine.

The cones in 412 should take anything 700RB II gives them, since they're rated 1200W, and 700RB II gives them 480W, and I don't think I'm cranking it up that much either.

Most GK users seem to think it's best to go less than 12 o'clock on volume (I go like 11, or 10), and then crank the boost and woofer to get the amp to work "on the rails" for that GK growl. I'm just saying sometimes it sounds a bit farty to me.
Also I never boost lows (neither bass nor low mids) over 12, so I can't see it as me doing the recipe for farting.

A friend of mine who also uses 700RB II (but with GK 410 RBH) also says he can't get rid of that farty sound, and is also searching for a nice tone from his rig.

What I'm wondering now.
Perhaps a more powerful amp like 1001RB would be a better fit with my NEO 412? Am I really pushing the amp that hard? I love me some GK growl, and my 700RB II was always loud enough, but there's just this inherit fart and I miss something, it sounds hollow and clanky at times. The fullness of tone is often just not there. Remember, my settings were all pretty much flat. I never boosted anything above 12, except boost and woofer knobs, and I recall that actually being suggested.
Perhaps I should try using contour? Maybe a preamp pedal in front? Maybe boost the low mids to like 2 o'clock?

I was just wondering which frequencies produce the fart in GK amps.

Or, dare I say it.. is GK just not the tone for me? :O No I don't even want to think about that, since I love Flea's tone and Duff's tone and Kanal's tone!

mouthmw · #6 11-20-2011, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slowgypsy

Any pedals in the mix? What bass are you using... active or passive? My point is that the amp settings are just a part of the equation. Also, you're comparing your 4x12 cab to several others using only 10's. Maybe cab's with 12's aren't your thing?

Passive Squier CV Jazz Bass. I've got several pedals in front, TC Polytune, Green Rhino, Digitech Synth Bass Wah, MXR Blow Torch, MXR Phase 90, Boss Tremolo and Digitech Digidelay. I don't clip the input light, and the tone sounds fine when all pedals are bypassed, and not much difference when I go straight to amp. In fact, I always kind of prefered it going through my pedalboard, sounds a bit warmer than going straight to amp.

christw · #7 11-20-2011, 01:18 PM

Turn down that boost and use your preamp volume and woofer control to adjust your volume. It should clean up a bit. Always worked on my 1001RB-II...

Remember, "most" GK users want that amp for that growl. If you don't want it to growl, don't use their settings!

**B-string** · #8 11-20-2011, 01:24 PM

Back off the boost some and start using some presence and contour.
You are 100% correct as you already know that the NEO412 is a G-K biamp cab. It is not cab "fart" that you are hearing, more than likely opamps running out of headroom, also check the spacing between your pickups and strings. Pickups too high can overload when you dig in.

**B-string** · #9 11-20-2011, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mouthmw

Passive Squier CV Jazz Bass. I've got several pedals in front, TC Polytune, Green Rhino, Digitech Synth Bass Wah, MXR Blow Torch, MXR Phase 90, Boss Tremolo and Digitech Digidelay. I don't clip the input light, and the tone sounds fine when all pedals are bypassed, and not much difference when I go straight to amp. In fact, I always kind of prefered it going through my pedalboard, sounds a bit warmer than going straight to amp.

Man you have lots to go wrong before the amp! Are you an Ex-guitarist?

Explore the tone options on the amp going straight before "adding"

I though last night I had a problem with my Fusion 550, I have a handheld tuner plugged into the tuner out. I noticed I had left it on, turned it off and everything was golden.

scottfeldstein · #10 11-20-2011, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mouthmw

the tone sounds fine when all pedals are bypassed

Wait, what?

mouthmw · #11 11-20-2011, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottfeldstein

Wait, what?

Lolz, what I meant was, when all my pedals are off (which is how I play 90% of the time), the tone doesn't differ from going straight to amp.

mouthmw · #12 11-20-2011, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christw

Remember, "most" GK users want that amp for that growl. If you don't want it to growl, don't use their settings!

I want it to growl, I just don't want it to fart...

**B-string** · #13 11-20-2011, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mouthmw

Lolz, what I meant was, when all my pedals are off (which is how I play 90% of the time), the tone doesn't differ from going straight to amp.

So the question is: Are all those pedal "True Bypass" or soft bypass?
Have you played straight to your rig to be sure one of those hang-ons is not the trouble?

scottfeldstein · #14 11-20-2011, 01:55 PM

Well I'm stumped. If your head had a limiter switch, I'd tell you to turn it on. But that about exhausts my brilliant ideas.

Obviously something is being pushed too hard on this signal. It's either the speakers or some stage of the signal before it reaches them: a pedal, pickups, preamp, power amp...

Here's a crazy thought: maybe it's mechanical. Like there's a wire buzzing on something inside the box. Or even environmental. I would be embarrassed to tell anyone how much time I once spent scratching my head over my rig only to realize the buzzing sound was coming from a nearby piece of furniture.

mouthmw · #15 11-20-2011, 02:07 PM

The more I think about it, the more I think it's me being crazy. I'm currently listening to clips of our band that were recorded from the mixer, my signal was going from the amp DI - it sounds fantastic.
I think it has to be environmental. Or maybe I prefer the contour knob set to like 12 or 11, as opposed to it being dimed off, and boost being 12, or 1 max.
The clips where the contour was on 12 are great.
Or I'm just a permanent knob twister, never being satisfied completely.
I'd also like to add, I had a horrible headache last gig, so that could have added to me hearing "farting". All I could think was "I can't wait for the gig to end".
I feel like a complete idiot to be honest. I think maybe I'm just nuts. Last gig, the sound guy even told me to turn down my stage volume, I was just turning those knobs, obviously going too loud. Maybe I got deaf during the gig!

**B-string** · #16 11-20-2011, 02:15 PM

When I uesd to play too loud my ears would start crackling.

mouthmw · #17 11-20-2011, 02:19 PM

Yes that just might be the case

Although, I went to the mixer, with my DI being pre-eq, so I guess my signal was flat clean bass signal, yes?
Maybe I have to set my GK eq to reach the flat settings! I recall it being something about bass rolled off a bit, low mids cranked a bit, and not sure about other.

scottfeldstein · #18 11-20-2011, 02:25 PM

I find that as soon as you turn up to rock band volumes, something always starts making a heck of a racket. The stage, the bar, a picture frame, some piece of furniture. Something starts buzzing and then it's hard to tell what the heck your rig sounds like. At least that's how it is for me.

If it's the same noise no matter where you are.. then maybe you've got troubles.

mouthmw · #19 11-20-2011, 02:37 PM

I guess you're right. And you've heard how my rig sounds on that clip I posted some days ago (the Led Zeppelin cover band gig), and you liked it. So it must be environmental and I bet it sounded better in public than on that rattly stage we were on.

scottfeldstein · #20 11-20-2011, 02:38 PM

Oh, that was you! Heck yes I liked it. All I heard was WIN.