Large church gig, sound engineer prefers ampeg over GK--ideas to warm up GK sound?

()smoke() · #1 03-23-2011, 10:50 AM

Good friend of mine and monster player recently landed a gig at a high profile church. His main amp for jazz gigs is a small ampeg combo, and doesn't have quite the 'oomph' for the large sanctuary, so the church obtained a GK 1001RB and 410 for him for stage. They've been running the DI off the GK, and he says the engineers prefer the sound of his Ampeg, they like the 'warmer sound' (their description) for the space. He was thinking of trying to trade in the GK for an SVT 3, but I think he might lose some $ on the deal, and the GK is only a few weeks old.

Anyhow, cutting to the chase--if he were to try to hang on to the GK, what suggestions would you have for warming up the sound (primarily to FOH, but also stage sound I imagine)?

I've suggested he check out a VT pedal, or VT deluxe, to send the DI straight to board, also maybe a JDI to board, which has always really smoothed the sound of my active basses well, but retained the deep bottom and clear top end (don't know if this is 'warm' enough, they might like the dirtiness of the ampeg, i'm just going by what he said they mentioned).

He plays an active 6 made in Brazil with Basslines pickups and preamp in it. He uses a lot of staccato notes in his playing with quick runs, but i believe this gig also requires lots of long sustained whole notes too.

Thanks for any ideas, just trying to help him out!

tdub0199 · #2 03-23-2011, 11:01 AM

The sound engineer prefers an Ampeg..... so what? what about the bass player himself????? I would never let a sound engineer decide on what kinda amp I played......

skb5string · #3 03-23-2011, 11:09 AM

Are the Sound Eng's only concerned with his signal to the FOH or are they having issues with his stage sound also? If its just the signal to the FOH and everyone likes the stage sound from GK rig, then just put a good/warm DI in front of it. I would look at either the REDDI or Groove Tubes Ditto or Brick. All 3 of those are Tube DI's and should add alot of warm character to the sound. Just sounds to me like they need a good DI. Not that the GK1001 DI is bad. I had one for years and thought it worked well. I use a Ditto at my church and does the trick

chuck norriss · #4 03-23-2011, 11:09 AM

Is there a way for his ampeg to serve as a preamp out to his gk? dont know im not familiar w ampegs.

so basically, they're regretting spending all that dough on the gk--maybe they can return it if they have a good relationship w/ their store.

or mic the ampeg. or use the gk, + a tube preamp + markbass super booster/parametric eq

()smoke() · #5 03-23-2011, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skb5string

Are the Sound Eng's only concerned with his signal to the FOH or are they having issues with his stage sound also? If its just the signal to the FOH and everyone likes the stage sound from GK rig, then just put a good/warm DI in front of it. I would look at either the REDDI or Groove Tubes Ditto or Brick. All 3 of those are Tube DI's and should add alot of warm character to the sound. Just sounds to me like they need a good DI. Not that the GK1001 DI is bad. I had one for years and thought it worked well. I use a Ditto at my church and does the trick

man i love the sound of those DIs, but unfortunately beyond the budget at the moment...i believe the FOH is the primary consideration though, and your idea is a good one

()smoke() · #6 03-23-2011, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck norriss

so basically, they're regretting spending all that dough on the gk--maybe they can return it if they have a good relationship w/ their store.

pretty much, i think that is the case...i'm waiting on a reply back from him to see if they bough the GK locally or ordered from RMC...if they bought locally, he might be able to do a more equitable trade, but i think he ordered it, which is why i imagine they'll lose big on the trade so early

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck norriss

Is there a way for his ampeg to serve as a preamp out to his gk? dont know im not familiar w ampegs.

i was wondering the same--not sure if they have the room for the ampeg too was my reservation with that, but i'll ask him

i think his ampeg has a DI that the engineers have used before the GK arrived...i think the issue is that he can't get the stage volume he likes to hear from the ampeg, so they bought the GK, which seems to be a bit brighter sound than all were expecting

()smoke() · #7 03-23-2011, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdub0199

The sound engineer prefers an Ampeg..... so what? what about the bass player himself????? I would never let a sound engineer decide on what kinda amp I played......

honestly, i don't think he feels they're dictating...the church owns the GK, so if anything, the engineers are saying they like what he likes

he would probably be fine with either amp, although slightly preferring the sound of the ampeg but needing the stage volume and headroom of the GK...he's much more concerned with his playing and bass than his amps, as he doesn't have a favored DI and always uses whatever the studio or engineer has when using PA

chuck norriss · #8 03-23-2011, 11:22 AM

yeah big ol gk rig like that is a lot of muscle. i imagine a church doesnt want Flea on the pulpit, maybe james jamerson. i hate to say that buying more products is the solution to manicuring the sound but maybe a good EQ is what it takes.

Is the band using floor monitors? aviom?

()smoke() · #9 03-23-2011, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck norriss

yeah big ol gk rig like that is a lot of muscle. i imagine a church doesnt want Flea on the pulpit, maybe james jamerson. i hate to say that buying more products is the solution to manicuring the sound but maybe a good EQ is what it takes.

Is the band using floor monitors? aviom?

i'll have to ask him more about the monitor situation...he said offhand a few weeks ago that someone in the band suggested in-ears, but a few of people in the band weren't keen on the idea, so I don't think it went anywhere

odin70 · #10 03-23-2011, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdub0199

The sound engineer prefers an Ampeg..... so what? what about the bass player himself????? I would never let a sound engineer decide on what kinda amp I played......

+1

pedroims · #11 03-23-2011, 11:33 AM

he is lucky to have an amp on stage, most of the high profile churches I have been use in ear aviom system as personal monitors and run direct to FOH, the only speakers you can see on stages are for the vocalists.

noahw1 · #12 03-23-2011, 11:33 AM

Sansamp VT Bass pedal perhaps?

eSmith · #13 03-23-2011, 11:34 AM

Is it that the soundman prefers the ampeg rig to the GK rig because of size and not sound?

Soundmen care about sound levels first and everything else second. If the small combo was easy to fit into the mix and the stage level never bled into the FOH then of course he would prefer it over any amp running through a 410.

If there is a FOH PA system then your claim that the ampeg rig didn't have the 'oomph' is bogus. it doesn't need ANY 'oomph' beyond the stage mix. Adding a 410 just makes it so the soundman has no control and no way to fix the mix when the bass player decides he needs his 'oomph'

Maybe You didn't need a new amp at all, maybe a mike for the old small amp and the soundman would be happy.

-eSmith.

cableguy · #14 03-23-2011, 11:36 AM

Now that the VT bass is out a lot of people are selling off there Sansamp Bass DI's. Usually $100 or less. I use mine for worship and the sound guys love it. You can get a great Ampegish warm tube sound to the FOH. As long as your not too crazy with the controls. It also has a dry signal out so you can put that into the GK and get the tone you want onstage. If you like the tone out of the Sansamp DI you can go into the GK with the tube emulation signal. I have the 3 channel version so I can get 3 different tones at the push of a button if needed. I know it's not looked at as a high end DI but I've have great luck with Tech 21.

bassramos · #15 03-23-2011, 11:40 AM

This my friend sounds like the problem... "He plays an active 6 made in Brazil with Basslines pickups and preamp in it. He uses a lot of staccato notes in his playing with quick runs," He just needs to manipute his bass' preamp and use the neck pickup more and add some bottom. Take out those mids and highs add some low warmth. That is THE go to Gospel music amp... The church is like a woman. It wants Smooth long bottom not "He uses a lot of staccato notes ... with quick runs.

svtb15 · #16 03-23-2011, 11:41 AM

If it is Prestonwood or Fellowship,, I know those gigs and places well..They have $$$ in piles... Tell them to get a REDDI.. Couldn't get more simple or better than that..

Quote:

Originally Posted by ()smoke()

Good friend of mine and monster player recently landed a gig at a high profile church. His main amp for jazz gigs is a small ampeg combo, and doesn't have quite the 'oomph' for the large sanctuary, so the church obtained a GK 1001RB and 410 for him for stage. They've been running the DI off the GK, and he says the engineers prefer the sound of his Ampeg, they like the 'warmer sound' (their description) for the space. He was thinking of trying to trade in the GK for an SVT 3, but I think he might lose some $ on the deal, and the GK is only a few weeks old.

Anyhow, cutting to the chase--if he were to try to hang on to the GK, what suggestions would you have for warming up the sound (primarily to FOH, but also stage sound I imagine)?

I've suggested he check out a VT pedal, or VT deluxe, to send the DI straight to board, also maybe a JDI to board, which has always really smoothed the sound of my active basses well, but retained the deep bottom and clear top end (don't know if this is 'warm' enough, they might like the dirtiness of the ampeg, i'm just going by what he said they mentioned).

He plays an active 6 made in Brazil with Basslines pickups and preamp in it. He uses a lot of staccato notes in his playing with quick runs, but i believe this gig also requires lots of long sustained whole notes too.

Thanks for any ideas, just trying to help him out!

**travep** · #17 03-23-2011, 11:52 AM

I know that the REDDI is considered best of class. Can you guys contrast the VT vs the Sans Amp vs a ToneBone? I have the latter & it has served me well...but I'm not sure our sound guys have a preference...at least they haven't expressed one...

()smoke() · #18 03-23-2011, 12:02 PM

thanks for the helpful suggestions fellas, just got some more info, and the store will do full price trade because of relationship with church, so he can trade in with no loss

also, learned that he was having to keep the stage volume down so much that he wasn't really able to get into the volume on the 1001, so i suggested he might want to give the 700rb a quick test just to be sure he doesn't like it before going with the svt3

svtb15--not prestonwood or fellowship, but similar in operating budget i imagine...i don't doubt they could afford a reddi, i'm just going off the budget they allowed my buddy, which was just enough for the GK rig--i agree a great DI would be a good investment

thanks again!

eSmith · #19 03-23-2011, 12:07 PM

I strongly suggest a Fender Rumbel 15. In Fact, any and all gigging bass players should play through a rumbel 15.....

-eSmith.

()smoke() · #20 03-23-2011, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eSmith

I strongly suggest a Fender Rumbel 15. In Fact, any and all gigging bass players should play through a rumbel 15.....

-eSmith.

i'll be sure and pass this along

...regarding the 'oomph', he's gigged that ampeg combo for years in all sorts of shows large and small, so he isn't someone who just wants a big amp, rather i think he would prefer to have more volume from his amp in this situation than he's apparently going to be allowed

i just wanted to help based on what he's communicated to me, sorry if the gaps in information i could provide indicate other problems beyond the 'warmth' issue