Let's talk EQ's for a second...

Balog · #1 12-13-2010, 04:19 PM

So this weekend I'll begin putting together my first rig (been using a craptastic combo until now) with the purchase of a gorgeous fEarful 12/6. January is budgeted for a Crown Drivecore, and a mic preamp (most likely a used Presonus Tubepre from here on TB).

I've been reading up on the need for good HPFing in PA amp-->bass cab applications. My reading also seems to indicate that the built in HPF on the drivecore may not be ideal for bass situations.

Additionally, I'm an ameteur sound guy. I've always EQ'ed the DI out from the bass with a 31 band graphic EQ, so the "Hi Mid Treble" style controls I see on a lot of bass applications seem a bit foreign and limited to me.

So, I'm considering adding a Peavey QF131 to the mix. It's built in HPF (or "low cut" I think they call it in the sales material) is 18db/octave butterworth as I see greenboy and others mention. And I'd have the EQ format I'm accustomed to using. However, the added cost might bump me down from a 2500 model drivecore to a 1500 or 1000. now, maybe I don't really need the extra power, but darned if I don't want it.

So, am I being paranoid? Should I stick with the built in HPF and EQ? Am I worrying over nothing, or would that be a good option?

greenboy · #2 12-13-2010, 04:31 PM

That's a good EQ. In the long term I'll stand for downsizing though. Bass players have done without formalized HPF for a long time using various ploys and considerably less gutsy woofers than the Kappalites...

Mr. Foxen · #3 12-13-2010, 04:34 PM

Maybe go secondhand on the power amp?

jnewmark · #4 12-13-2010, 04:43 PM

How about a bass specific eq ? I know Roland makes a bass pedal eq, although I have never tried one.

Balog · #5 12-13-2010, 05:03 PM

Greenboy: sounds good. I can always add it later, if I need the EQ portion.

Mr Foxen: the used prices for Drivecore's are about what Northern Sound and Light get. And I see mostly heavier, less powerful amps for the cost of a new Drivecore.

Jnewmark: the pedal EQ's I've seen are both more $ and parametric vs graphic (what I'm used to).

Anyone else use a 31 band graphic EQ on the bass side, or is that a crazy idea?

Alex1984 · #6 12-13-2010, 05:07 PM

Not crazy, but probably overkill. Most of the time you only get 7~10 bands on an instrument, but you should be able to get exactly the same results out of a 31 band.

I thought the main point of 31 band EQ was to notch out feedback on a PA system without affecting the rest of the spectrum rather than tone shaping.

greenboy · #7 12-13-2010, 05:09 PM

It's not crazy but it is bulky. Beyond around 6 to 10 bands (depending on whether the centers fit your setup), it's all extra bands.

I get by with two shelving bands and two or three full parametric bands, and can get any sound I want and that's including HPF, within an extreme palette. That's 5 bands total.

Balog · #8 12-13-2010, 05:14 PM

Hmmm...

So what are some good $1-200 EQ options that'd work for a normally tuned 5 string?

ninepoundjammer · #9 12-13-2010, 05:32 PM

I've actually been really happy with the little MXR 6-band (M-109) eq pedal on my pedal board. It's a little noisy, but has become something I can't live without, as my current amps don't have very tweakable eq sections. If I were going with a dedicated power amp I'd probably just add something like this to my current setup:

http://www.sfxsound.co.uk/mainpage.asp?page=thumpinator

But if you're going to be hauling around a rack anyways, I guess a rack eq could make sense.

Balog · #10 12-13-2010, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninepoundjammer

I've actually been really happy with the little MXR 6-band (M-109) eq pedal on my pedal board. It's a little noisy, but has become something I can't live without, as my current amps don't have very tweakable eq sections. If I were going with a dedicated power amp I'd probably just add something like this to my current setup:

http://www.sfxsound.co.uk/mainpage.asp?page=thumpinator

But if you're going to be hauling around a rack anyways, I guess a rack eq could make sense.

I considered buying a Thumpinator, great looking unit. But I really want an EQ as well as a HPF, and the Microthumpinator is (depending on exchange rates) about what the QF131 is. I'll have to look at the M-109.

Passinwind · #11 12-13-2010, 06:05 PM

I have a few things that might work for you. I'll PM the info.

greenboy · #12 12-13-2010, 07:02 PM

The trick is to get a head or preamp that has all the EQ you need (save for maybe the high-pass filter) in the first place.

Addendum to my post above: even though I'm changing sounds a lot, of the 5 bands I mentioned sometimes several of them are centered - ie, inactive.

rpsands · #13 12-13-2010, 07:05 PM

I really like having some eq on a pedal so I can footswitch it on and off. Pretty much the only heads that would do the job for me have footswitchable separate channels. But I am starting to hate footswitches (separate cable makes me angry:P).

The number of heads with footswitchable separate channels these days is pretty slim, sadly, but it makes sense - most people don't use a lot of different tones. I only use 3, but I can't get that out of a head without twiddling knobs, which does not work for me. Maybe if I marked on the head where my settings were =P

greenboy · #14 12-13-2010, 07:12 PM

Lucky me. Got all that and more. I can foot-sweep or toggle changes on multiple bands of EQ at one time - with different minimums and maxes and some of them in reverse direction if I want. While simultaneaouly changing pre-gain postgain for gettin' gritty or beyond.

DSP and digitally controlled stuff is sweet.

Why does anybody need all that? Well, they don't. But whatever they would like to have, it's within that superset.

Too bad the cheap DSP products don't have foot-control via midi. Most of them ; }

greenboy · #15 12-13-2010, 07:26 PM

Ironically I bought my first bass preamp on the recommendation of others, and because of the legendary name. Alembic F1X. Later I snagged a Peavey Max preamp for hundreds of dollars less, meant to be a backup that I kept in the vehicle at all times. It was a channel-switcher with a tube side and an SS side, and also you could blend them to any amount as well. Footswitchable, or from the front panel.

The tube side alone could do every sound the Alembic could do, and it actually had higher output. Same controls on that side, including the pushbutton voicings.

The SS side had 10 bands. Well-chosen centers too. This preamp just kicked the Alembic azz so bad in every respect, including the crossover. Better S/N ratio too. And hey: channel switching and blending.

I sold the Alembic and made my money back, walked away richer actually.

Zooberwerx · #16 12-13-2010, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenboy

It's not crazy but it is bulky. Beyond around 6 to 10 bands (depending on whether the centers fit your setup), it's all extra bands.

I get by with two shelving bands and two or three full parametric bands, and can get any sound I want and that's including HPF, within an extreme palette. That's 5 bands total.

I own and have used the discontinued Rane PE 15 PEQ as described. Bands 1 & 5 can be reassigned for shelving leaving 2, 3, 4. The learning curve is somewhat steeper for a para EQ but the results are worth the time and effort. I have an extra unit if interested.

Riis

jnewmark · #17 12-13-2010, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balog

Jnewmark: the pedal EQ's I've seen are both more $ and parametric vs graphic (what I'm used to).

Anyone else use a 31 band graphic EQ on the bass side, or is that a crazy idea?

Not this one: http://www.rolandus.com/products/pro...3&ParentId=117

Again, I have'nt tried it, but it seems to be what you want.

greenboy · #18 12-13-2010, 08:00 PM

I'd do an end run right around that and just use a Roland / Boss GT-10B as preamp, EQ, and footcontrol : }

And consider all the other effects stuff as gravy.

Jazzdogg · #19 12-13-2010, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenboy

It's not crazy but it is bulky. Beyond around 6 to 10 bands (depending on whether the centers fit your setup), it's all extra bands.

I get by with two shelving bands and two or three full parametric bands, and can get any sound I want and that's including HPF, within an extreme palette. That's 5 bands total.

I like to use a graphic EQ for mains and stage monitors, and parametric (and semi-parametric) for bass and channel strips;
I find graphic much easier to learn because of the intuitive display.

I'd like to find a unit with two shelving bands and 2 or 3 parametric bands that has a graphic display. Anybody know who makes one?

pnut166 · #20 12-13-2010, 08:41 PM

I have an old Trace Eliot preamp with a 13-band EQ and a hpf, lpf, and full-range outputs. Works well for me !