Lightweight 15" cab with some real low end?

jimcroisdale · #1 08-23-2011, 05:50 AM

Hi all,

I recently got hold of a Schroeder 15PL (the very smallest one) and I have been very happy with it. It has virtually replaced my Warwick 6x10", and I can fit my entire rig in my small car boot now, which is great.

However, it's true what they say about some of the Schroeder stuff - all low mid and no real low bass. Indeed, if I play with the 40hz slider on the amp it makes absolutely no difference to the sound or movement of the cone - like the real low end is filtered away to achieve more sensitivity higher up the range. Now, this isn't nearly the problem you'd imagine it to be, but in some venues i'm just not quite loud enough in the low end.

As I'm running a Trace Elliot RAH600SMX head (weighs 3x the cab!!) I am currently only using one half of the power amp - 300w (Trace watts, mind!) into the 4ohm Schroeder. This leaves me the other side of the amp free at the moment.

So, what I want is a cab of similar size that puts out some proper low bass. 4ohms would be pretty essential I think, but I don't need a tweeter. As long as I can get the cab on the back seat of my car I should be fine. I have a Ford Puma!

Any ideas?

Cheers,

Jim

jimcroisdale · #2 08-23-2011, 05:52 AM

I should probably mention that I'm in the UK as well - we don't have anywhere near the choice that you do in the States!

Also, I would prefer to buy used if I can. I got the Schro for £200!

Cheers,

staindbass · #3 08-23-2011, 05:58 AM

most bass amp speakers dont put out real lows, most die off below 70hz. its not just schroeders. i had to make my own to get what i wanted. i wish i had a suggestion. pro sound gear would work but is very expensive.

Russell L · #4 08-23-2011, 06:09 AM

My Markbass Traveler 151P cab does pretty good, I think, but it's 8 ohms.

WingKL · #5 08-23-2011, 06:32 AM

Small, loud and low - pick any two. An Acme Low B2 will go down to 30hz and but weighs 50lbs but you'll need a serious amplifier to get it's volume up. You can also check out the BFM Jack cabs to see if they will work for you, these are quite efficient and have decent low end extension. 2 Jack 10s or 12s will probably be loud enough for most people and may even fit in your car. If you're in the UK you should really check out Barefaced cabs. They are supposed to be well designed, very light weight cabs.

Edit: Oops you wanted a 15 inch, in which case the Barefaced 15s would be the best bet.

Sundogue · #6 08-23-2011, 06:39 AM

fEARful or Barefaced. Both use the same concepts and the same 3015LF drivers.

Since you are in the UK, go with Barefaced.

jimcroisdale · #7 08-23-2011, 06:39 AM

But apart for the Mark Bass stuff, which are generally overpriced, none of these amps exist in the UK!

If I go on eBay now and search, there will be no Genz Benz, no Avatar, no Schroeder, no Aguilar, no LDS....

It's a desperate situation!

Sundogue · #8 08-23-2011, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimcroisdale

But apart for the Mark Bass stuff, which are generally overpriced, none of these amps exist in the UK!

If I go on eBay now and search, there will be no Genz Benz, no Avatar, no Schroeder, no Aguilar, no LDS....

It's a desperate situation!

Barefaced. I'll say it again...Barefaced. Alexclaber is a TB member here and his company is in the UK. He'll set you up with what you need.

anonymous02282011 · #9 08-23-2011, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundogue

Barefaced. I'll say it again...Barefaced. Alexclaber is a TB member here and his company is in the UK. He'll set you up with what you need.

Yep .. barefaced will get you exactly what you're describing.

KJung · #10 08-23-2011, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundogue

Barefaced. I'll say it again...Barefaced. Alexclaber is a TB member here and his company is in the UK. He'll set you up with what you need.

+1 I don't think Alex makes any 3015LF based boxes any more (might be wrong there), but his little one way 115 with the 3015HO or whatever that driver is called would be great for the OP.

Similar tone to the Schroeder (bright, punchy), but with the ability to produce more real low end. About the same size and weight (maybe just a smidge bigger).

Edit: The cab I'm talking about is called the Barefaced 'Compact'.

KJung · #11 08-23-2011, 06:52 AM

Also, to the OP, the Compact is very efficient/high SPL.... 300 watts into 8ohms will make that cab sing.

If you have any interest in hearing a similar cab, I have a clip of an LDS cab based on the same driver with similar tuning as the Compact on my iComposition site (listed as my 'homepage' in my Talkbass Profile). The clip is listed as 'LDS 3015HO'. Plenty of low end, and some nice grind from the top of the driver. You wouldn't miss the tweeter at all with the Compact IMO.

jimcroisdale · #12 08-23-2011, 06:52 AM

Sundogue - I have looked at the Barefaced stuff. Indeed a mate of mine has got one, but it cost a FORTUNE!!

Oh, I dunno - maybe I want too much!

I just remember that my TNT115 has more low end, and I wouldn't mind somethig approaching that, but without the weight.

Cheers,

KJung · #13 08-23-2011, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimcroisdale

Sundogue - I have looked at the Barefaced stuff. Indeed a mate of mine has got one, but it cost a FORTUNE!!

Oh, I dunno - maybe I want too much!

I just remember that my TNT115 has more low end, and I wouldn't mind somethig approaching that, but without the weight.

Cheers,

I could be wrong, but I don't think the Compact is super expensive.

billfitzmaurice · #14 08-23-2011, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimcroisdale

So, what I want is a cab of similar size that puts out some proper low bass.

Google 'Hoffman's Iron Law'.
In a nutshell with respect to low frequency extension, small cabinet size and high sensitivity you can have any two of those factors, but not all three. To get a cab of similar size that has good lows you must sacrifice sensitivity. That means you need a lot more power to get the same output, along with a long excursion woofer capable of using that power. The Avatar 153, some Barefaced models, and custom made or DIY cabs loaded with 15s with at least 9mm xmax fit that description.

jimcroisdale · #15 08-23-2011, 07:11 AM

If I could buy a 4ohm 3015LF I would have a go at it myself, but I'm not sure 300w into 8ohms would be enough.

Or would it?

I'm looking at a Little Giant 1000 at some point in the future, so I'd have an increase in power there.

Having said all that, I'm nearly loud enough as it is, so I don't need the second cab to do that much, just add a little low end in the venues that seem to need it.

Cheers,

Jim

oldcatfish · #16 08-23-2011, 07:14 AM

Don't know if it has the low end that you are looking for, but GK makes a 4ohm version of the 15 inch MBE cabs.

KJung · #17 08-23-2011, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimcroisdale

If I could buy a 4ohm 3015LF I would have a go at it myself, but I'm not sure 300w into 8ohms would be enough.

Or would it?

I'm looking at a Little Giant 1000 at some point in the future, so I'd have an increase in power there.

Having said all that, I'm nearly loud enough as it is, so I don't need the second cab to do that much, just add a little low end in the venues that seem to need it.

Cheers,

Jim

You can't really use the LF model as a stand-alone (and they don't come in 4ohm version as far as I know). It needs that mid driver, since it is kind of a 'subwoofer' application driver.

The full range version (the 3015 'non LF') is a fantastic driver, and will again give you a similar 'bright and tight' tone as your 4ohm Schroeder with the ablity to generate significantly more low end due to the mechanical spec's of that driver. It again won't thunder down low, but IME (since I owned the 4ohm 115L+ for quite a while and played a number of the 3015 non-LF boxes), the 3015 cabs are 'all that and more' than your 115L+ in a similar small (not quite as small) and lightweight form factor.

While you might have to turn your master volume knob up a smidge more, you should actually be able to generate more absolute volume with more absolute low end than the 115L+, since that cab will give up the 'mechanical ghost' long before you hit maximum power from your head at 4ohms.

Don't get me wrong, I totally dig the 115L+, but if you are looking for 'similar tone with a bit more real low end', the Compact (given you are in the UK) is really the only option I know of in a small, lightweight format.

devilock76 · #18 08-23-2011, 07:20 AM

I always thought it was pick any two of light, loud, and cheap.

As for light loud and low, I gotta recommend Genz Benz Neo-x series. Their 1x12 at 8 ohms is impressive, Loud, light, efficient, and handles Low B with aplomb, however since you said 4 ohms they make both a 2x10 and a 2x12 that are 4 ohms. They are expensive speakers compared to some other cabs but I feel the price is worth it for the end product.

Ken

jimcroisdale · #19 08-23-2011, 09:06 AM

I understand and appreciate what's being said here.

The Schroeder is amazing at what it does, don't get me wrong. But it seems to sacrifice low end to do what it does, more than any other 15" cab I've ever used.

I think what I really meant to ask is if there is a similar kind of Neo cab that isn't optimized in this way, or are they all designed like this?

I have used many 15" cabs in the past, from Peavey, Trace and many others and they ALL had more low end than the Schro.

Is there a modern lightweight alternative to these?

Cheers,

Jim

KJung · #20 08-23-2011, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimcroisdale

I understand and appreciate what's being said here.

The Schroeder is amazing at what it does, don't get me wrong. But it seems to sacrifice low end to do what it does, more than any other 15" cab I've ever used.

I think what I really meant to ask is if there is a similar kind of Neo cab that isn't optimized in this way, or are they all designed like this?

I have used many 15" cabs in the past, from Peavey, Trace and many others and they ALL had more low end than the Schro.

Is there a modern lightweight alternative to these?

Cheers,

Jim

Not quite sure how many times we need to answer the same question.... Barefaced Compact. Literally what you are looking for.

The GK Uber 115 would also get you there, but it will be quite a bit heavier and larger than both the Compact and your Schroeder.

The GK115 Neo will have more true low end, but not get nearly as loud as your Schroeder in an absolute sense.