List of Point to Point Tube Amps

**garmenteros** · #1 11-30-2010, 09:37 PM

I recently sold/traded my mesa 400+ (It was way too heavy in its rack ATA case along with the tuner and voltage regulator, over the 100 pound mark) for a vintage ripper, USA svt 350 and 400 dollars. I miss the tube sound dearly. I did an A/B comparison with my b15 and univox 1236 (bedroom amps) with my current solidstate heads (acoustic 150 and svt 350 into mesa powerhouse 1000) and its night and day. Im a tube guy at heart. I use solidstate amps in rental practice spaces and I feel somethings missing... I miss the tube sound. I used my 400+ a long while before my friend picked up and I can see why I miss it...

So to the point of this thread... I was looking for information and a list of currently in production point to point tube amps (no boards) and couldn't find anything compiled into a single thread. I'm thinking of unloading all my amp and getting a point to point wired amp. Does anyone know if the b15 reissue is going to be point to point? What about the orange AD 200?

EDIT: I've been adding amps as people mention them in the thread...
Green Amps
Fargen Amps
Reeves 225
Morgan MP200
Granger SBVA-300
Verellen Meat Smoke
Reinhardt
Divided by 13
Old School Amps

Ill update the list as people add to it...

KramerBassFan · #2 11-30-2010, 09:42 PM

The AD200 is ALL PCB.

That said, why does it have to be "All point to point"?

Are turret boards allowed?

SactoBass · #3 11-30-2010, 09:50 PM

OP: Two more to add to the list...

Morgan MP200 (200 watt all tube), 8 ohm and 4 ohm outputs, 42 pounds, morganamps.com, $1999
Granger SBVA-300 (300 watt all tube), 8 ohm, 4 ohm, 2 ohm outputs, 55 pounds, grangeramp.com, $1799

I have no affiliation with either.

In answer to Kramer's question, turret boards must be okay since that's what Ben Fargen uses (the OP listed Fargen).

There is also the Verellen Meat Smoke, Reinhardt, Divided by 13, and Old School Amps.

KramerBassFan · #4 11-30-2010, 09:54 PM

Its a rhetorical, because i don't know of any FULLY point to point 200w tube amps.

None of the amps listed in this thread are really and truly POINT TO POINT....

Just sayin'.... nobody shoot me

aborgman · #5 11-30-2010, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KramerBassFan

Its a rhetorical, because i don't know of any FULLY point to point 200w tube amps.

None of the amps listed in this thread are really and truly POINT TO POINT....

Just sayin'.... nobody shoot me

Yep... technically as soon as there is any sort of turret board/solder strip/etc./etc. it ain't point to point.

**garmenteros** · #6 11-30-2010, 10:23 PM

Why point to point? Well a couple of my friends have had their marshall tube amps boards fry and another friend of mines has had similiar experience with a crate blue voodoo... My solid state heads have fried in the past as well... gk 1001rbII... Voltage here is Terrible. I figure its probably easier to fix something point to point and the signal path is more direct...

**garmenteros** · #7 11-30-2010, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KramerBassFan

Its a rhetorical, because i don't know of any FULLY point to point 200w tube amps.

None of the amps listed in this thread are really and truly POINT TO POINT....

Just sayin'.... nobody shoot me

This is what I read on greenamps site...

"Take a look at the real Dope in Hardwire, Turret Board, Point to Point, Military Grade Tube Amplifiers.
Ready for SONIC VOLUME LEVEL OUTPUT and will Handle the Duration of Vibratory Bottom End Tone.
No printed circuits are found a n y w h e r e in our amp units. "

This leads to the question, Whats the difference between a turret board and a printed circuit?

Rumblefisher · #8 11-30-2010, 10:31 PM

Divided by 13 TBL200
Hiwatt DRs
Reinhardt Bass Amp
Verellen Meatsmoke

I'm sure I'll think of more...

T-Bird · #9 11-30-2010, 11:20 PM

Hi.

PTP is just a positive marketing slogan, just as hard wired and hand wired. That's a bit silly, as the PTP was not considered a quality construction method back in the day. And rightly so.

No-one in their right mind would manufacture a true PTP design nowadays, and for several good reasons.

Anyone who's ever serviced one will understand, the rest, well, they wouldn't care

.

Regards
Sam

Rumblefisher · #10 12-01-2010, 12:06 AM

Still, there's something nice about using an item into which went many hours of work (presumably). The proof is in the sound, whether it's PTP, PCB, PCP, BBQ. I happen to like a particular PTP amp myself.

johnk_10 · #11 12-01-2010, 12:32 AM

the new, soon to be released, ampeg B15N.
FWIW, as an amp tech since '73, even though turret boards and terminal strips are not literally considered point to point, i consider them to be, since the components are soldered 'point-to-point' to each other or use hand soldered jumpers/wires to connect them (instead of pcb traces).

and they are a pleasure to repair and and service from a tech's 'point' of view

. i also find them to generally be more rugged and reliable.

Jim C · #12 12-01-2010, 08:17 AM

Agreed that PTP with turret boards and terminal strips are easier to service and typically don't have as many solder joint issues as poorly deisgned or manufactured PCB's.

This does not make them sound any better or be less prone to line voltage issues IMO though.

johnk_10 · #13 12-01-2010, 08:20 AM

actually, IMO it can make them sound better, due to the traces on a PCB being all on the same plane can create capcitance in the circuit if the design isn't compensated for it.

Mr. Foxen · #14 12-01-2010, 08:25 AM

Article on the differences here: http://mhuss.com/AmpInfo/

That misses out turret-track, where all the wires you find on a turret board are in pcb style, but the components are on turrets, means you don't have to fiddle with those wires so much, less solder joints to fail etc. whilst having the handyness of turret mount components.

Here's mine, wiring isn't as neat as it could be:

Green amps (as in ones designed by Dave Green at Matamp, the quote above looks very much like the dude from Electric amps, who happens to make green coloured amps) are like this. The amp above is one of Dave's designs. 'True' Matamps (as in Matt Mathias) tend to be on handwired PCB with some turret boards in addition.

johnk_10 · #15 12-01-2010, 08:34 AM

beauty!

aborgman · #16 12-01-2010, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Foxen

Article on the differences here: http://mhuss.com/AmpInfo/

Good list.

*Point-to-point - Each component is connected to a tube pin or solder lug or jack. There are no "boards" whatsoever. Examples of this style of construction include most old tube hi-fi equipment, 70-era Sunns, and more recently BadCats.

* Tag Board - the classic Fender and "plexi" construction methods. Most components are soldered to a long board with eyelets. These are in turn connected by wire to the tubes, transformers, pots, etc.

* Turret Board - The classic Hiwatt/Harry Joyce style, this is similar to tag board construction, but uses metal turrets which extend out from the board, which most of the components are connected to.

* Partial PCB - Used by most modern large manufacturers starting in the late 70s/early 80s. Most components are soldered to a Printed Circuit Board, which has copper lines or traces on the underside of the board surface that the components are soldered to, and which also make circuit connections. Example of this style of construction include the early (vertical input) JCM800s, Biacrown-era Hiwatts, and Soldano SLOs. This method basically used the PCB as an advanced tag board, and many wires are still needed to connect the tubes, etc.

* Total PCB - Used by most modern large manufacturers starting in the mid-80s to the present day. Everything is soldered to a PCB, including pots and tube sockets. This makes it easier and cheaper to manufacture, but harder to service and modify, and there is some question about the reliability of the PCBs holding the sockets of the extremely hot power tubes.

**garmenteros** · #17 12-01-2010, 09:32 AM

Thats some great info right there... I will read up... Judging by the pictures the turret board looks like the most service friendly and cleanest design. I believe my b15n and univox 1236 use turret boards...

aborgman · #18 12-01-2010, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garmenteros

Thats some great info right there... I will read up... Judging by the pictures the turret board looks like the most service friendly and cleanest design. I believe my b15n and univox 1236 use turret boards...

IME - Turret board and tag board amps are by far the easiest to service.

I'd rather work on PCB's than many actually "point to point" wired tube amps. A lot of them are the proverbial "rats nest" of wires, and tracing them all out can be painful.

...and I don't know about the Univox, but the early B-15s definitely were usually tag board. My B-18 is tag board, the new B-15 re-issue is tag board, and pretty much every gut shot of a '60s B-15 I've seen is tag board.

jastacey · #19 12-02-2010, 07:47 AM

My Traynor YBA-3 & YBA-3A are point to point, turret board construction

IntrepidCellist · #20 12-02-2010, 07:54 AM

I don't understand the issue with PCB-mounted amps. As long as the PCB is thick and solid and the tubes are chassis-mounted to minimize heat flexing (and even then, there are a few PCB-mounted tube amps that have been around for AGES without issue) it's just a case of "pay (significantly) more for a feature that provides a negligible tonal benefit" (aka "voodoo" or "mojo" or "that's the way they did it in the old days.")

IMO and IME, it's all about the components and circuit design rather than what the components are attached to as long as it's not a paper-thin PCB holding tube sockets.

That said, I can't think of any other hand-wired/ptp/turret board/etc. manufacturers that aren't already listed here.