Little Mark II EQ

[Youngspanion]

I'm trying to 'find' my tone. I cant put into words what I want to hear and I cannot put into words what I DO hear.
I tried tweeking the EQ some last night and I turned the knobs all the way down. 7 O'clock as opposed to 12 O'clock on the Low, Low Mid, High Mid and High. Just to experiment. The overall volume was much lower. Obvioiusly. But something about it I liked. Anyone else use the EQ like this on the Little mark amp?

[KJung]

Cutting everything like that is pretty much like just turning the master volume down.

The LMII/III is quite even and about as 'flat' when set neutral as a bass amp can be. Extreme EQ is rarely necessary to get a good, even, clean tone out of that head.

The LMII/III EQ really is designed for the EQ to work in the classic way... to keep the relatively neutral and even tone of the amp sounding the same in different rooms. The EQ is not really voiced for extreme tone changes, or grind, or distortion or whatever.

If you don't like the basic sound of that head set neutral (tone controls at noon and THIS IS KEY... both filters OFF), then you probably need a different amp.

The VLE filter is one control that can nicely revoice the amp to a more 'old school' warm, darker vibe if that is your thing (it is a variable lo pass filter that will roll of more and more of the treble region, eventually the upper mids and mid mids at extreme settings).

IMO and quite a few years of IME with this wonderful head.

[billbern]

This thread suggested a similar setting to "boost" low mids by cutting the low and low mid controls

LMII: getting low-mid punch

[KJung]

PS One of the downsides of the LMII is that, with some cabs and basses, there can be a bit of a lack of low mid punch. A slight cut in the bass control (which is a perfectly voiced shevling control set at a low start point so it doesn't mess with the low mids) to around 11 o'clock can really bring out the ratio of low mids to deep bass, which can be an improvement with some cabs. The low mid control is relatively useless for this, since the center freq is set too high (almost at 400hz).

So, a little bit of bass cut with everything else neutral (noon) and the filters off might be a good place to start.

[Youngspanion]

Well Ken,

If indeed I can't dig the head, what direction can I go in? I am playing through a TC210 and an Epi 112. Separately. Both have different voices as you well know. Neither one is satisfying. I don't know what I like so right now I'm kind of feeling around in the dark.

What about different cabs?

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by KJung

The LMII/III is quite even and about as 'flat' when set neutral as a bass amp can be. Extreme EQ is rarely necessary to get a good, even, clean tone out of that head.

This is very true.

However, I have found with certain basses, cabs, and environments, cutting some bass and low mids has really helped with definition and note articulation.

Like KJung, I've been using LMII/LMIII exclusively for the past couple of years at rehearsals and performances. IMO, there's not much it can't do unless you need authentic tube-iness. In that case, get a tube amp.

And be careful with those filter knobs. Full counter-clockwise is "off," and that's the place to start when dialing in your tone. Indeed, all the EQ knobs are pretty sensitive, but I have the best results when I dial in a good tone without the filters, and then experiment with the filters last. Also, I have never gotten a decent tone using both filters. One or the other gets me the most impressive, useable tones.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Youngspanion

Well Ken,

If indeed I can't dig the head, what direction can I go in? I am playing through a TC210 and an Epi 112. Separately. Both have different voices as you well know. Neither one is satisfying. I don't know what I like so right now I'm kind of feeling around in the dark.

What about different cabs?

I like both of those cabs with the LMII a LOT, so probably can't help you. The RS210 is warm and punchy and nice and tight in the lows and 'organic' (i.e., paper cone sounding) up top with that very nicely voiced coax tweeter. The Epi112 (I assume you have the UL?) is more 'modern' in that it has a deeper bass extension, a bit of a scoop in the upper mids, and a very airy, hi fi sounding tweeter. Those cabs represent different sides of the tone continuum.... if you don't like either, not sure where to point you without more info.

What bass are you using, how are your setting your onboard pre (if you have one), and give us some examples of bassists/recordings that have a tone you dig (i.e., Flea, Marcus Miller, Joe Osborn, Alain Caron, Pino, Geddy Lee... whatever).

K

[Youngspanion]

No. Its a PS112. I use a G&L SB2 and a Fender Aerodyne Jazz. A G&L L2000 is on its way (April some time).

Sometimes I play through an Eden 410 (thats all the information I have on that cab). Thats at rehearsal. Most of my tweeking and experimenting is done at home. Alone in the spare room. Could be the room too I guess.

As far as examples of what I like, I guess I'd have to dig in a little and listen to what I like.

[JimmyM]

just get an svt/810 and be done with it

[GrowlerBox]

Originally Posted by Youngspanion

Could be the room too I guess.

This is very likely a big contributor. As you can see below, I use an F1. On paper, the EQ controllers are identical with respect to centre frequencies and Q. KJung has had vast experience with both these heads and will no doubt correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyway, the point is that I find a huge mid-hump in my practice room which disappears both in rehearsal and at gigs. I have a very "busy" practice room (i.e. full of crap) which may act as a bass-trap of sorts, and I find it quite difficult to dial in the sort of "open" sound I like there. Also, I think I become more sensitive to these mids as my practice session goes on, and they become ever more irritating. However, everything opens up when I play in most other rooms, and all of a sudden I like my head again. So before you invest in a new amp, try moving it around at home and in other settings, because I'm betting many of your problems will not be there.

[pbass2go]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

just get an svt/810 and be done with it

How can you argue with logic like this??

[Fajah]

What I've always liked about the LMII is the flat response with no coloration of my bass's natural tone. In the case of one bass, I used to have to tweak the VPF a bit to get close to the tone I was looking for.

However, I looked more to strings and pickups to get "my tone". In the end, I "voiced" my P-bass for the blues/rock tone I want, and "voiced" my fretless for the jazz tone I like. Whether I'm practing at home, rehearsing at my drummers house, or playing a gig, my LMII is set flat with no filters, and my bass controls are always wide open. I just adjust the amp for input and volume levels.

Certainly not for everyone, but that how I like it

[pacojas]

stand away from the cabs and adjust if you have a very long speaker cable. it's a mistake to rely on what you interpret while right in front of the rig. once you get close to what tones you like, vary your technique to fine tune "YOUR" sound. gl.

[CLMSHQ]

To the OP.

I put up a similiar post a couple months back. I got many good responses and have tried some of the suggestions. I think part of the issue with trying to find my tone in my LMIII, is that I went from an all tube monster Fender 300T to the 'new thing' of the micro-heads. Also I have changed music style, no longer the 60's and 70's style of music I was playing the last 6yrs. Now it is more up to date rock, so my tone needed to change from that classic flat-growl, now to a more modern kind of tone. I really think that was the biggest issue.
If you look at the post I had guys that said use the two filters to 9 O'clock as if that would be their flat spot(got some good tone that way), or turn the Low and Mid Low to 9-10 and start from there.
I am still not 100% satisfied, but I will definately find out next Fri. as it will be my first real gig with this amp through my Avatar 410. We will see. Hopefully I will have enough time during soundcheck to 'Find my Tone' before I get the GK or Genz-Benz GAS.

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

...be careful with those filter knobs. Full counter-clockwise is "off," and that's the place to start when dialing in your tone. Indeed, all the EQ knobs are pretty sensitive, but I have the best results when I dial in a good tone without the filters, and then experiment with the filters last. Also, I have never gotten a decent tone using both filters. One or the other gets me the most impressive, useable tones.

???

Kjung, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the "off" position is with the VLE full UP. Setting it all the way counter-clockwise is like turning off the tweeter in your cab, making the amp sound very dark indeed.

Flat response is actually with the EQ knobs at noon, the VPF at zero, and the VLE dimed. From that starting point, you turn the VPF up from zero to start scooping the mids, and/or the VLE down from "ten" to roll off the highs.

Putting both filters at 9 o'clock will give you mildly scooped mods and a STRONG treble loss. Probably a pretty nice old-school tone, but not very representative of what the LM can do...

I have long suspected that the reason people have such contradictory impressions of these amps, is because the filters are so widely mis-understood.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca

???

Kjung, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the "off" position is with the VLE full UP. Setting it all the way counter-clockwise is like turning off the tweeter in your cab, making the amp sound very dark indeed.

Flat response is actually with the EQ knobs at noon, the VPF at zero, and the VLE dimed. From that starting point, you turn the VPF up from zero to start scooping the mids, and/or the VLE down from "ten" to roll off the highs.

Putting both filters at 9 o'clock will give you mildly scooped mods and a STRONG treble loss. Probably a pretty nice old-school tone, but not very representative of what the LM can do...

I have long suspected that the reason people have such contradictory impressions of these amps, is because the filters are so widely mis-understood.

Nope... full off is 'out of the circuit'. It is very obvious when you hear it... you are probably just misremembering the direction of the circuit/taper. Think of it as kind of the mirror image of an onboard passive tone control. Works similarly, but in the opposite direction. It is a bit counter-intuitive, since usually a 'cut' would logically correspond to counterclockwise... just the opposite here. I guess their logic is that you dial in the cut as an 'effect', hence 'off' equals non 'vintage' effect.

The VLE is a cool circuit in that it is a variable lo pass filter. So, turning the knob doesn't actually increase the level of the cut, which is constant, but actually changes the start point of the cut... moving from the very top of the treble all the way down to the low mids at extreme settings.

You are totally correct though, that many who have tried the MB heads in Guitar Center did so with all knobs at noon, which sounds just awful!

[pacojas]

Originally Posted by KJung

Nope... full off is 'out of the circuit'. It is very obvious when you hear it... you are probably just misremembering the direction of the circuit/taper. Think of it as kind of the mirror image of an onboard passive tone control. Works similarly, but in the opposite direction. It is a bit counter-intuitive, since usually a 'cut' would logically correspond to counterclockwise... just the opposite here. I guess their logic is that you dial in the cut as an 'effect', hence 'off' equals non 'vintage' effect.

+1

[GrowlerBox]

A brief addendum to my earlier post following some more fiddling. With my amp, that is.

I've finally discovered a use for the VLE/VPF knobs -- I guess it should have been obvious to me given what I said before, but I generally have both of these set to "0" (both "effects" off as per KJung's post above) and set EQ between the more standard 4 band EQ and my Tone Hammer, which has the sweepable mid. If I have these set to what sounds good in the rehearsal space, I can leave them alone, and then pull out the mid-hump and some of the top end with judicious application of these filters, then just turn them off again for next rehearsal.

Whether this is useful information for anyone else, I don't know, but it has allowed me to avoid practicing that new song for a few more minutes.

[PhatBasstard]

Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca

???

Kjung, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the "off" position is with the VLE full UP. Setting it all the way counter-clockwise is like turning off the tweeter in your cab, making the amp sound very dark indeed.

Flat response is actually with the EQ knobs at noon, the VPF at zero, and the VLE dimed. From that starting point, you turn the VPF up from zero to start scooping the mids, and/or the VLE down from "ten" to roll off the highs.

Putting both filters at 9 o'clock will give you mildly scooped mods and a STRONG treble loss. Probably a pretty nice old-school tone, but not very representative of what the LM can do...

I have long suspected that the reason people have such contradictory impressions of these amps, is because the filters are so widely mis-understood.

As far as the VLE is concerned this is totally wrong on all Markbass amps with the VLE control.
I'm surprised you can't hear how wrong this is.

Having the VLE "dimed" would be like having your horn/tweeter in the "off" position as all the high end is severely reduced.

[JimmyM]

phat is right. vle all the way counter clockwise is off, and all the way clockwise cuts off everything but the low frequencies. same for the vpf.