Little Mark III or Little Mark Tube 800?

[ricknote]

I'm going to buy either the Mark Bass Little Mark III or the
Little Mark Tube 800.

The Power and price are not a deciding factor here, reliability is.

I've gigged for over 20 years with an SWR SM400 without one
failure. Over 2000 gigs!
I'm nearing 50 years old and I want to go lighter.

I really like the Markbass sound and I'll be buying one or the other,
so let's keep this thread restricted to everyone's experience with
one of these two Little Mark amps.

I know the Little Mark II and III have been very reliable,
What about the Tube 800?

Also, are digital power amps like the one in the Tube 800 more prone
to failure in clubs with lousy power strips and questionable voltage?

Thanks,
Rick

[THORRR]

I've got the Littlemark 800 (not the tube) see <http://www.markbass.it/products.php?lingua=en&cat=1&vedi=98> and I absolutely LOVE it. I'm pushing 2 B410 Neo cabs from Avatar see<www.avatarspeakers.com> and this setup absolutely kills. It's like a cannon. Played an outdoor gig with it and it sounded like INdoors. Solid, Tight, loud and tons of headroom (I was on 1/3 volume). I'm sure the tube 800 is just as terriffic. I'm 62 and this is the best lightweight powerful system I've ever owned. The head is 6lbs and the neo cabs are 65lbs and very manageable. I fit 'em both in my
Toyota Avalon's backseat. Big fan of Markbass and Avatar. I'd put 'em up against any other rig in a heartbeat.

[KJung]

The LMIII and LMTube are class A/B power amps just like your SWR. The main difference is the switching power supply, which allows them to be very small and lightweight. The 800 series are class D and sound a bit different (more modern, deeper lows, brighter upper mids).

The LMIII and LMTube both sound about the same to me (the tube is a pretty subtle deal in these... it isn't a 12ax7 like most tube preamps).

If a second channel and mute switch are key, get the LMTube. If not, get the LMIII. IMO!

[ricknote]

Thorrr said:
I'm 62 and this is the best lightweight powerful system I've ever owned. The head is 6lbs and the neo cabs are 65lbs and very manageable

That sounds perfect!
How many gigs and or rehearsals have you done since you
purchased the LM800?

Thanks,
Rick

[KJung]

Originally Posted by ricknote

That sounds perfect!
How many gigs and or rehearsals have you done since you
purchased the LM800?

Thanks,
Rick

Again, just to make sure you realize:

LMIII, LMTube... class A/B, sound very similar to each other. Primary difference IMO is mute switch and second channel.

LM800, LMTube800.... class D, sound very similar to each other. Primary difference IMO is mute switch and second channel.

The non-800 series are warm, fat, and some describe them as similar to a clean running (non distorted) SVT. The 800 series are deeper, wider, brighter and more modern/less warm in general.

Edit: The F500/F1 are yet another flavor of MB (my favorite)... class D, 500 watts... punchier and warmer than the 800 series, brighter and tighter than the LMIII/Tube. I have a clip of the LMII (identical tone to the LMIII) and my F1 (identical tone to the F500, just less features) on my Youtube channel FYI!

[KJung]

PS Every MB head is tighter in the low end, and louder in an absolute sense than the old SWR400 (which is very deeply voiced, a bit scooped, and capable of very sizzly top end... as you know).

If you dig that super deep low end and super hi fi top end, the little GK MB500 has that tone pretty much covered. Not sure about the reliability of those at the moment. They had some issues, but seem to have them worked out. The TecAmp Puma heads also have that vibe, but are very expensive.

The MB 500 series amps are warmer, tighter in the low end, more present in the mids, and more organic up top. The 800 series are a bit bigger down low like the SM400, but much brighter in the upper mids.

[JimmyM]

i prefer the lmiii sound by a long shot. the lm 800 sounds too solid statey to me.

[ricknote]

The crew here is pretty sharp.
I went into GC this morning and gave the two amps a
good A/B.

Everything you guys said is spot on tone wise!

The III is warmer and has a fatter low mid.
The 800 is brighter and clearer with a more powerfull
bottom, likely due to the higher wattage.

I guess I'll wait to see if anyone has had any failure issues
with the class D amps.

Thanks a bunch,
Rick

[KJung]

Originally Posted by ricknote

The crew here is pretty sharp.
I went into GC this morning and gave the two amps a
good A/B.

Everything you guys said is spot on tone wise!

The III is warmer and has a fatter low mid.
The 800 is brighter and clearer with a more powerfull
bottom, likely due to the higher wattage.

I guess I'll wait to see if anyone has had any failure issues
with the class D amps.

Thanks a bunch,
Rick

Cool. The class D stuff is very robust.... no more failures reported versus any other class of amp. You should be fine. And, with MB at GC, if anything goes wrong within the year warranty, they just give you a new one... no questions asked.

[ricknote]

KJung said:
Cool. The class D stuff is very robust.... no more failures reported versus any other class of amp. You should be fine. And, with MB at GC, if anything goes wrong within the year warranty, they just give you a new one... no questions asked

That's good to know. I'll give them both a listen one more
time and pick one up.

Thanks everyone for the great info,
Rick

[Doug Parent]

Hey Ken, I have a crack at a LM Tube 800 which could replace my F-1. Mainly interested in the power increase @ 8 ohms, as well as the possibility of getting a more "open" sounding upper midrange....would the 800 deliver this while not losing too much punch as a trade off?

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Doug Parent

Hey Ken, I have a crack at a LM Tube 800 which could replace my F-1. Mainly interested in the power increase @ 8 ohms, as well as the possibility of getting a more "open" sounding upper midrange....would the 800 deliver this while not losing too much punch as a trade off?

You might dig it. It does have more extended low end, and a much more 'in your face' upper mid response (not sure if that is what you mean by 'more open'). I have to honestly say I didn't dig the voicing of this amp... to bright, not particularly warm, and more 'big low end' versus punch. However, many dig it. At 4ohms with my high SPL cabs, I never run out of room with my F1/F500, and didn't really notice the increased headroom with the LMT800 I had for a short while. However, at 8ohms, it might be a different story.

For those who dig the general tone of the F1, but need more ooomph, I'm currently recommending the Shuttle 9.

[Doug Parent]

Originally Posted by KJung

For those who dig the general tone of the F1, but need more ooomph, I'm currently recommending the Shuttle 9.

Thanks Ken. BTW Currently using an Epi UL-410 series 2... 8 ohms.

I had a Shuttle 6.0 and I was clipping that thing constantly.
The F-1 seems to beat the crap out of the Shuttle 6.0 power/volume-wise and I continue to be amazed at what this thing can do.

Unless the 9.0 is a marked difference over the 6.0 ?

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Doug Parent

Thanks Ken. BTW Currently using an Epi UL-410 series 2... 8 ohms.

I had a Shuttle 6.0 and I was clipping that thing constantly.
The F-1 seems to beat the crap out of the Shuttle 6.0 power/volume-wise and I continue to be amazed at what this thing can do.

Unless the 9.0 is a marked difference over the 6.0 ?

Two things with the Shuttle 6. The strange design of that power amp clip light has really given the Shuttle 6 a reputation for being underpowered and easy to overdrive into power amp clipping/limiting. That clip light is not really a 'clip/danger' indicator, but rather an indication of when the 'tube emulation limiting' is engaging. You still have quite a few DB to go before the amp starts to clamp. So, even though most 'power amp clip lights' are designed to tell you when you need to turn the amp down (duh!), for some reason, the Genz clip light is designed to be ignored This confuses many owners of that amp.

That being said, even when pushed into 'tube emulation clip', I found the F1 to outperform the 6 in low end punch and absolute volume. Part of this is due to the low end being rolled out a bit in order for the Shuttle 6 to match up nicely with the small, low end attenuated Shuttle cabs. You can engage that low end extension/boost knob, but I found that way too much of a good thing with my cabs.

The 9 is a different beast. While it still has that goofy (IMO) clip indicator that really isn't a clip indicator, it has more inherent low end and a lot more ooomph. Does it sound like a 900 watt amp... IMO and IME no. But it sounds like a darn good 650 watt amp!

If you can try one, and learn to just not pay any attention to the power amp 'clip' indicator, you might really dig it if you like the F1 but find it doesn't have the wump you need at 8ohms.

IMO!

[Doug Parent]

cheers man.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Doug Parent

cheers man.

Let me know where you end up. Again, you might dig the heck out of the LMT800... just not my thing. However, that Shuttle 9 is VERY impressive if you can give it a try!

Send me a PM and let me know what you end up with!

[Doug Parent]

Will do bass brutha.

[Doug Parent]

Ken, emergency PM coming your way.

[jake bassist]

Hi KJung,
I have read many posts you'v made about LMK classD, but if Iremember corectly you had LMK Tube800. Have you actually played LMK800?
Before couple of days I was in store and have stacked markbas(SD1200,SD800,LMK3,LMKtube,LMK800 and LMKTube800) on top of each other and tested them ALL. Box was new york 804.
You are spot on right regarding SD800 and partialy regarding LMKTube800. BUT completely wrong about LMK800. Yes, it is class D like tube800 but has completely different voicing than other markbass class D. A bit of harshness in hi midrange is there but setting hi-mid button at 10 o'clock cleaned it out without loosin' the overall character. When LMKTube800 is on 100% sold state doesn't sound even simmilar to LMK800. Tube800 is harsh and too clean in SS mode and muddy i Tube mode. LMK800 sounds much more punchier and warmer, close to LMK3 and even closer to F1. Big part of that hi mid and overall wider sounding LMK800 is due to more power and loudness, because YEAH it is WAY louder than LMK3 and due to different preamp even from LMKTube800.
For that matter, so the LMK3 and LMKTube dont sound similar, even if they are both A/B class.
So I'm wondering have you actually played LMK800? Because you put him in same bracket with other 800 markbass, and that A/B versus D class is little bit superficial and painted with big brush.
As I said LMK800 and LMKTube800 have about 20-30% common in tone (power amp) but the rest of it is completely different story.

Best regards

[KJung]

Originally Posted by jake bassist

Hi KJung,
I have read many posts you'v made about LMK classD, but if Iremember corectly you had LMK Tube800. Have you actually played LMK800?
Before couple of days I was in store and have stacked markbas(SD1200,SD800,LMK3,LMKtube,LMK800 and LMKTube800) on top of each other and tested them ALL. Box was new york 804.
You are spot on right regarding SD800 and partialy regarding LMKTube800. BUT completely wrong about LMK800. Yes, it is class D like tube800 but has completely different voicing than other markbass class D. A bit of harshness in hi midrange is there but setting hi-mid button at 10 o'clock cleaned it out without loosin' the overall character. When LMKTube800 is on 100% sold state doesn't sound even simmilar to LMK800. Tube800 is harsh and too clean in SS mode and muddy i Tube mode. LMK800 sounds much more punchier and warmer, close to LMK3 and even closer to F1. Big part of that hi mid and overall wider sounding LMK800 is due to more power and loudness, because YEAH it is WAY louder than LMK3 and due to different preamp even from LMKTube800.
For that matter, so the LMK3 and LMKTube dont sound similar, even if they are both A/B class.
So I'm wondering have you actually played LMK800? Because you put him in same bracket with other 800 markbass, and that A/B versus D class is little bit superficial and painted with big brush.
As I said LMK800 and LMKTube800 have about 20-30% common in tone (power amp) but the rest of it is completely different story.

Best regards

Back from the dead thread. However, good point. I owned the SD800 and the LMTube800, and disliked them both and thought they sounded quite similar. I also spent quite a bit of time with the LMTube and owned the LMII, and the only difference I heard between those two was a gain difference, with the LMTube quite a bit softer than the LMII at the same gain setting unless you summed the tube and solid state pre's. If found the tone very similar when gain matched (although still slightly preferred the LMII... a bit more punchy, but only very slightly), and felt the tube did very little to the sound.

I have never played the LM800 (non tube), so my brief comments on that one were based on the lack of impact (IMO) of the tube in the LMTube versus the LMII. I would guess the LM800 sounds a lot like the SD800, but if you say the LM800 sound quite different, I'll be interested to check that out! That would be quite strange.