Live sound sounding muddy!

MattyH · #1 09-07-2011, 02:50 PM

Hey guys. Basically my problem is I cant get a crisp tone out of my rig. I love punch, I love crispness, I love it round, and I love it thumpin. Too bad none of this is being achieved!

I'm running an Ampeg 410 HLF cab, a Hartke LH1000 head, and a Sansamp Bass Driver. I usually play a Fender 62 Jazz Bass. All I get is mud. Not a blown sound, just no clarity. Sloppy. Crappy. Driven, but mucky. Sometimes it'll start out half way decent, but by the middle of every single gig (every weekend), I'm driving myself crazy trying to adjust and play. It's getting frustrating. I really don't like the Hartke LH1000, and I want to eventually replace it with a GK 700RB, or maybe down the line, an SVT 4-Pro. But as of now, I'm stuck with it, and I need some advice! I don't have my gear in front of me, so if anyone has any settings to suggest to try out, that would be fantastic!

-Matt

MattyH · #2 09-07-2011, 03:05 PM

The only thing that consistently sounds good is my Big Muff Pi!

stflbn · #3 09-07-2011, 03:08 PM

IMHO, it's the Sansamp that's sucking out the clarity and adding it's Sansamp vibe. If you're boosting Lows or Highs on it, you're also dumping mids. And your cab can be considered flat or mid shy. So you could be duplicating similar problems.

NWB · #4 09-07-2011, 03:09 PM

It's my understanding that the HLF 410 is a fairly deeply-voiced cabinet. It may be more than a bit shy on the mids that give clear note definition. That may well account for what you're getting.

As a start, with the fender tone stack of the LH1000, I'd be diming the mids.

MattyH · #5 09-07-2011, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stflbn

IMHO, it's the Sansamp that's sucking out the clarity and adding it's Sansamp vibe. If you're boosting Lows or Highs on it, you're also dumping mids. And your cab can be considered flat or mid shy. So you could be duplicating similar problems.

I got the Samsamp pretty much because the 62 Jazz is so silent of a bass, and if I crank the LH1000 I get a hiss. SO it's more for a booster, and a backup just incase I have to go direct.

cableguy · #6 09-07-2011, 03:22 PM

Don't be real agresive with the tone controls of the BDDI. I also don't dime the blend, I run mine between noon & 2. If you use too musch bass or treble the FOH doesn't get a very usable signal. You might also try plaing with the BDDI in your chain to see what kind of sound you get. Then try plating with the BDDI coming into the effects return to see what that sounds like. That way your playing with two different EQ sections and may be able to find the mud.

MattyH · #7 09-07-2011, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWB

It's my understanding that the HLF 410 is a fairly deeply-voiced cabinet. It may be more than a bit shy on the mids that give clear note definition. That may well account for what you're getting.

As a start, with the fender tone stack of the LH1000, I'd be diming the mids.

I usually play with no mids. The head only has "Low", "Mid", and "High" knobs. There really isn't much to work with. And you're right, the HLF is deeply voiced. But I've heard them get some serious punch and clarity. One of the reasons I got it.

MattyH · #8 09-07-2011, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cableguy

Don't be real agresive with the tone controls of the BDDI. I also don't dime the blend, I run mine between noon & 2. If you use too musch bass or treble the FOH doesn't get a very usable signal. You might also try plaing with the BDDI in your chain to see what kind of sound you get. Then try plating with the BDDI coming into the effects return to see what that sounds like. That way your playing with two different EQ sections and may be able to find the mud.

Cool I'll give this a shot also.

GrowlerBox · #9 09-07-2011, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattyH

I usually play with no mids.

Well, there you go then.

MattyH · #10 09-07-2011, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrowlerBox

Well, there you go then.

It makes it hollow and actually sound worse. If I had a few mid options to dial like highs and lows, maybe it would make a difference. But the one "Mid" on the LH1000 really doesn't give much shape at all.

jeff7bass · #11 09-07-2011, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWB

It's my understanding that the HLF 410 is a fairly deeply-voiced cabinet. It may be more than a bit shy on the mids that give clear note definition. That may well account for what you're getting.

As a start, with the fender tone stack of the LH1000, I'd be diming the mids.

That head has a completely different "flat" setting than his other heads, correct? Basically diming the mids is mids set to flat. The bass control set to 2.5 is also flat, way less than most heads. Try BASS on 2.5, MID on 9, and TREBLE on 2.5.

Plus that cab is deep and warm to begin with.

MattyH · #12 09-07-2011, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff7bass

That head has a completely different "flat" setting than his other heads, correct? Basically diming the mids is mids set to flat. The bass control set to 2.5 is also flat, way less than most heads. Try BASS on 2.5, MID on 9, and TREBLE on 2.5.

Plus that cab is deep and warm to begin with.

I will also try this! Thanks!

silky smoove · #13 09-07-2011, 03:36 PM

LH1000 has a Fender tone stack. The flat setting is 2-10-2 (bass, mids, treble). Start there and make small adjustments for tone shaping and room adjustments.

No mids = no clarity

EDIT: Beaten to the punch!

Rockmusician · #14 09-07-2011, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattyH

Hey guys. Basically my problem is I cant get a crisp tone out of my rig. I love punch, I love crispness, I love it round, and I love it thumpin. Too bad none of this is being achieved!

Sometimes it'll start out half way decent, but by the middle of every single gig (every weekend), I'm driving myself crazy trying to adjust and play. It's getting frustrating. -Matt

As crazy as it sounds (no pun intended) did you ever consider the possibility that your sound is not changing but it is your hearing that is being effected. A good friend of mine described this same thing to me and kept ignoring it. He eventually developed tinnitus. It could be that after a while your ability to hear higher frequencies is being lost or diminished temporarily.

MattyH · #15 09-07-2011, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silky smoove

LH1000 has a Fender tone stack. The flat setting is 2-10-2 (bass, mids, treble). Start there and make small adjustments for tone shaping and room adjustments.

No mids = no clarity

EDIT: Beaten to the punch!

Got it! I think my problem is that my highs and lows were improperly set, causing unwanted tone from the mids. I'm gonna try these and see what comes of it. Utilize the mids correctly instead of trying to squeeze what I can out of the lows, highs, and BDDI.

will33 · #16 09-07-2011, 03:45 PM

+1 to using a fender tonestack right. Add to that a 410hlf doesn't have a lot of mids and the sansamps "warmth" is easy to make mud with too if you're not careful. Start by losing the sansamp, plugging straight into the head using the 2,10,2 setting and adjust from there. Then put the sansamp back on it and warm it up a little but don't do anything that loses clarity.

What sounds a little too middy/bass shy on it's own will sit good in a mix. What sounds really fat and warm on it's own will muddy up a mix.

AMJBASS · #17 09-07-2011, 03:45 PM

Judging by what the OP has writen so far I would dismiss hearing loss and attibute it to tone settings. I had an LH500 and it was not muddy at all. I was at the time using a passive Jazz bass and it was clear as can be. I always had the bass at 0, mids full, treble at 2(close to flat for a Fender tone stack). The sansamp is going to seriously affect your sound as well. You need to cut with that preamp rather than boost to get it sounding clear.

MattyH · #18 09-07-2011, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockmusician

As crazy as it sounds (no pun intended) did you ever consider the possibility that your sound is not changing but it is your hearing that is being effected. A good friend of mine described this same thing to me and kept ignoring it. He eventually developed tinnitus. It could be that after a while your ability to hear higher frequencies is being lost or diminished temporarily.

Actually it's not crazy! It's a very good point everyone needs to be aware of. I use ear buds for the most part, but I was recently fitted for custom noise filtering plugs, and that came with a hearing test. My hearing is fine so I think it's just my settings. But we're all very aware of that. Not something to be taken lightly! My drummer just recently took the plunge on the in ear monitors. We wanna be doing this for a while, so hearing loss is not an option! But again, good point.

will33 · #19 09-07-2011, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattyH

Got it! I think my problem is that my highs and lows were improperly set, causing unwanted tone from the mids. I'm gonna try these and see what comes of it. Utilize the mids correctly instead of trying to squeeze what I can out of the lows, highs, and BDDI.

Now you're getting it. The mid knob only cuts mids, doesn't add any, 10 is flat. The bass and treble only add, they don't reduce. Just enough to be on is flat, usually around 2 on the dial. Adjust from there. What you were doing was using an extreme "V" eq, which will make mud everytime.

JimmyM · #20 09-07-2011, 03:50 PM

I think in this case, it's probably not hearing, but it is always a good idea to be aware of high volume levels. Anyway, now it sounds like you're on the right track with the LH head. I'm an Ampeg guy but Larry makes really nice stuff...just have to massage the tone controls.