LMII: getting low-mid punch

[SteveMoodie]

I find that my LMII is lacking in the low-mid punch department. The LMII's Low-Mid is centered at 360Hz which is too high. And the Low's are centered at 40Hz. To me, the amp misses out on a bunch of important lower frequencies, IMO.

Turning either of these knobs up almost results in a scoop of the punchy low-mids. My sound gets both muddy and honky.

It's really been annoying me and so I've been looking at equalizer pedals to sort out the problem, but sometimes you just want to "plug and play" and not have to connect a bunch of pedals to get your sound.

Well, I think I may have found the answer (or at least I'm onto something);
After looking at the LMII EQ graphs (in the manual) you can visually see the scoop that's created by turning the Low's and Low-Mids up.
You can also visually see the relative "boost" that's created (at about 150Hz) by turning both knobs down.

So what I'm trying out is turning all EQ knobs to about 9 o'clock and making that my new "flat". (Filter knobs are off). Then by "boosting" the Low and Mid-Low to about 10.30, It seems to add in the punchiness without adding the muddiness or honkiness that results from boosting these points from the LMII's real flat position.

I've only tried this in my bedroom so far and it seems to work really well. I have a gig on Friday to try this approach which will determine if it actually works or not.

If you have a LMII, give it a go and let me know what you think.

[Akito]

I'll give this a shot Monday night and let you know what I think!

[::::BASSIST::::]

I certainly will try that.

Thanks for posting this info.

I currently use a VT Bass pedal who's low eq knob is centred at 125hz so that fills that gap.

Again thanks for sharing.

Edit: one drawback to this approach is by doing this you are cutting the amp's volume potential as you will have to turn up the master to make up for what you have cut out. Still worth an investigation though.

[SteveMoodie]

That's true. But by cutting the EQ section it is effectively reducing the gain. So increasing the Gain knob should bring the volume back to normal.... I could be wrong there - just thinking aloud.

[JimmyM]

good creativity! a lot of people forget the eq knobs also go down and not just up. and you're right...the gain should take care of putting back the reduced volume.

[Craig_S]

Originally Posted by SteveMoodie

So increasing the Gain knob should bring the volume back to normal.... I could be wrong there - just thinking aloud.

It really depends on how you set your gain. I always set it just below clipping. With that, I can only recoup lost volume by turning up the master.

SteveMoodie's issue is one of the reasons I bought the SA450 instead of the LMII. I knew the additional mid-range control would be useful.

[SteveMoodie]

Yeah the SA450 would be ideal but it only has one channel. I'm actually using the LMK (which is the 2 channel version of the LMII) because I use electric and double bass on the same gig. So the compromise is not having the additional mid-range control.
Wish there was a 2 channel SA450!

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by SteveMoodie

Yeah the SA450 would be ideal but it only has one channel. I'm actually using the LMK (which is the 2 channel version of the LMII) because I use electric and double bass on the same gig. So the compromise is not having the additional mid-range control.
Wish there was a 2 channel SA450!

eh, i don't think it's necessary. i think your solution will work just as well.

[::::BASSIST::::]

Here's the thing.

I know the pedal solution is a bit of a hassle, but you have to bring a tuner pedal anyway right? You can run an eq pedal off the power of many tuners. I think an eq pedal is what would work best for your situation

[KJung]

You are onto the right idea, but IMO your solution is too extreme. The beauty of that bass control is that you can cut it just a touch and it doesn't suck out any low mids. Just cut the deep bass to 11 o'clock (less issue with gain make-up), and you will get a reasonably punchy low end. However, if you have a very widely voiced cab with a low mid hole (like the Epifani410UL, for example), you really do need a head with more low mid control (like the F500 or SA450 with a nice two band semi-parametric mid section) in some cases with some basses.

[Joe Smithberger]

When I had my LMII's, I turned both filters to 9:00. That boosted that low mid area. If you look at the EQ curves for the filters, you will see that the low end boost of the VPF affects a broader range of frequencies than the bass knob. The VLE, then, tames the high boost from the VPF.

Of course, your solution is getting to almost the same place.

+1. This is exactly what I do with my LMIII. Works great.

Originally Posted by Joe Smithberger

When I had my LMII's, I turned both filters to 9:00. That boosted that low mid area. If you look at the EQ curves for the filters, you will see that the low end boost of the VPF affects a broader range of frequencies than the bass knob. The VLE, then, tames the high boost from the VPF.

Of course, your solution is getting to almost the same place.

[BluesWalker]

Originally Posted by SteveMoodie

Yeah the SA450 would be ideal but it only has one channel. I'm actually using the LMK (which is the 2 channel version of the LMII) because I use electric and double bass on the same gig. So the compromise is not having the additional mid-range control.
Wish there was a 2 channel SA450!

Buy a DI Radial Bass Bone.

[Handyman]

Very clever idea, I'll have to give this a try. I've been setting my bass to 11, as Ken mentions, but it never occurred to me to set everything to cut.

Those Markbass guys sure managed to get a lot of usefulness into those six tone control knobs.

[Craig_S]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

eh, i don't think it's necessary. i think your solution will work just as well.

I'm sure it will.

[A440Hz]

This sounds counterintuitive, since you wouldn't normally cut everything. But that's in the paradigm of something like a Graphic EQ, where all the bands are (usually) crossed over with one another.

It sounds like this solution will work just fine.

BTW, the SansAmp BDDI just has Bass and Treble controls, but the manual recommends a similar thing:

Adjusting Mid-Range Content: The mid-range level of SansAmp Bass
Driver DI is preset. Boosting Bass and Treble gives you the equivalent of a
“mid-cut” where the relative mid-range level is lower than the Bass and Treble
frequency levels. Cutting Bass and Treble is the equivalent of a “mid-boost”
where the relative mid-range level is higher than the Bass and Treble frequency
levels. NOTE: The overall output level will change in relation to the adjustments
you make with the EQ controls.You can compensate accordingly with
the Level control.

[Tim1]

Hi Steve, having heard your rig at my place I am just wondering whether you wouldn't be better off with the Bergantino HT112ER stack rather than your current AE112 stack (which sounded great, anyway). It sounds as though your tastes are developing as the band is achieving more success and you are probably playing at bigger venues (???). Next time you are up here you are welcome to pop around and AB your AE112 with my HT112ER. While this is probably not a cost effective option, I suggest it because the sound you describe very much sums up the difference between the two - the ER is certainly stronger down low while the AE has more apparent attack in the upper mids. I rather suspect that ultimately the sound you seek may end up with a new rig, simply because as your experience and playing have developed you have no doubt ended up with a finer appreciation of tone and exactly what is the sound you personally seek.
Short term answer though: congratulations on coming up with an intelligent and cost effective approach to refining your sound.

[SteveMoodie]

Right now, I don't wanna even think about buying a new rig, Tim.
Eventually, I'm gonna have to. Depending on where the band is at etc. I will probably go for something bigger (keen to try out your NV610 and NV215!) and get a tube amp as well.

In the meantime I'm gonna try this "cutting" idea. If it works alright, I can rest easy for a little bit longer. If it doesn't work then I may look at EQ pedals (I'd have to get 2, which is a huge pain!)

[T. Alan Smith]

...had some fun last nite.
I went home from work, set up my LMII/Berg HT112 rig(still packed from the weekend) and copied SteveMoodie's settings before even plugging in. I typically set up my amp in a more KJung fashion. So fresh ears would be critical for me to "get" SteveMoodie's direction.
I plugged in my Bongo HS6 fretless(strung w/halfs) first. The tone was SO dark with the Bongo's EQ flat. No matter how I had the pickups blended, it was much too murky to do my typical work, but I could see it working where a real organic/earthy tone was wanted. EQing the Bongo helped get some note definition, while SteveMoodie's amp settings kept the overall tone earthy.
Next, I plugged in my hot rodded SX P-bass with Chromes. Wow. I'm mean, wow! Excellent note definition. Chords were clear as well. It was hands down, the best I've ever heard that bass sound. Tight & punchy, lean yet full. Highs were present, but very smooth. Being passive, I adjusted the gain and master, but I went indulged myself and cranked it. It was perfection.
My Stingray 4HP fretless was next(strung w/Pressurewounds). Overall, the tone was somewhere between the Bongo and the P...leaning a bit toward the Bongo. Much better note definition. Nice and organic w/o the murkiness of the Bongo.
Next, I plugged in my Stingray 5H with stainless rounds. No surprise here- similar to the fretless 'Ray 4HP. Between the stainless rounds and being fretted, it was tonally a bit more hi-fi, but noting like the P-bass.
Lastly, I plugged the Bongo 6HS fretless back in again. As I suspected, since my ears had gotten used to the amp EQ, I noticed a hair more definition and a hair less murkiness, but only a hair. Still, it came off as more usable in the right situation.
This was a lot of fun for me. Maybe because I'm a plug-n-play kind of guy generally and keep my rig packed ready to grab n go for the weekend. But I'm still blown away by how my SX P with flats blew my EBMM's away with SteveMoodie's EQ settings. I will definitely use these when I gig with my P with my LMII, and when I want a more organic tone overall in an ensemble situation.

[T. Alan Smith]

Practiced last night. Amp still set up w/SM's EQ settings. Plugged in the Bongo...for like 2 mins. Plugged in the P, cranked the gain and rocked the studio the remainder of the night. Series or parallel, just the best I've ever heard a P w/flats sound. Man!