Looking for the right head, I need recommendations on WHAT to - Page 2

Noose · #21 02-12-2013, 03:41 PM

Just to clarify for me because I have a similar situation: you are looking for more "clean" volume. In other words, you dont want to necessarily get louder, you want to be able to have the same volume without distorting and without pushing your amp hard. Am I understanding this right? Thats what Im trying to achieve and I have trouble articulating it on here so I get responses from knowlegable people that, while correct, dont necessarily answer my questions.

jungleheat · #22 02-12-2013, 03:58 PM

That's the thing though. From that 180w at 8 ohms, you can't even double your power before you max out a single cab. And really, 180w into a (cheap) 300w cab is probably already maxed out, depending on how you set your EQ.

On the other hand, a more efficient cab (like the G3) would do a lot more with less watts. So instead of pushing that 180w to the limit with your inefficient cabs and running out of headroom, you could be backing off the volume and wondering how to get quieter.

Yorkville cabs are supposed to be pretty solid for the price, but I get the feeling they are not exactly high performance. In terms of "consumer level" 4x10s, the G3 is extremely tough to beat. And if you had one, when you do eventually get around to getting a new head, the G3 would actually TAKE that power, whereas your current cabs won't.

So what you're trying to do by getting a high powered head to run low powered cabs is akin to installing a 5 liter Mustang engine on your 10 speed bike. It's just really not the best use of resources.

Bottom line, if you get a new head you WILL basically need new cabs. If you get a new cab (or 2) you probably WON'T need a new head right away, and when you DO get one, you will be able to harness that additional power effectively.

KingCrimson · #23 02-12-2013, 04:53 PM

Alright, well thats cool because I don't really like my 410 that much anyways. I LOVE my 115B (seriously its a very nice punchy cab).

I checked out the goliath, but its a 4 ohm cab. I would preferably like an 8 ohm cab. Are there any other cabs that you would recommend?

Also how about phasing problems? Is there a problem using two different brands of cab when I run 4 ohms?

jungleheat · #24 02-12-2013, 05:50 PM

They have 4 and 8 ohm versions. With the G3, you probably wouldn't feel the need for another cab if you are getting by now with only 1 for almost all gigs. If you got it and felt like it still wasn't enough, I think THEN the next step would be a head with a bit more power. But you don't need 500-1000. That's way overkill unless you are in a crazy loud metal band, or playing arenas, or just need the cleanest of clean sounds at pretty high volumes. 400-600w should be plenty for just about any possible scenario. If you STILL didn't have enough guts (unlikely, considering your current low powered setup seems to be just about getting you by), then you could get another matching G3.

Go ahead and keeo your 15, and relegate it to use as a practice/studio cab only. I wouldn't bother using it with the Goliath cab as that wouldn't really add anything. Compared to what you have now, a single G3 should be more than enough by itself.

There are other strong 4x10s, but as far as I've seen the later generation Goliath cabs have the best bang for the buck. And it really isn't "oh, they sound ok for a $400 cab", they really do just sound awesome. Others may feel differently, but with the tweeter control, you really can go from classic vintage thump to modern high end sparkle and everything in between. I was getting some great 70s studio tones (a la Steely Dan, etc...) with one, powered by my SWR Bass 350, and playing my old Kramer aluminum neck (with P style electronics), and the tweeter control turned down almost all the way. But with a more modern style bass, you could definitely get some Stanley Clarke style tones.

KingCrimson · #25 02-12-2013, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jungleheat

They have 4 and 8 ohm versions. With the G3, you probably wouldn't feel the need for another cab if you are getting by now with only 1 for almost all gigs. If you got it and felt like it still wasn't enough, I think THEN the next step would be a head with a bit more power. But you don't need 500-1000. That's way overkill unless you are in a crazy loud metal band, or playing arenas, or just need the cleanest of clean sounds at pretty high volumes. 400-600w should be plenty for just about any possible scenario. If you STILL didn't have enough guts (unlikely, considering your current low powered setup seems to be just about getting you by), then you could get another matching G3.

Go ahead and keeo your 15, and relegate it to use as a practice/studio cab only. I wouldn't bother using it with the Goliath cab as that wouldn't really add anything. Compared to what you have now, a single G3 should be more than enough by itself.

How much would a goliath III be? They don't seem to sell them on musicians friend any more. Keep in mind I live in Canada.

jungleheat · #26 02-12-2013, 11:05 PM

They go for about 300-500 on the used market. If you're in canada it might be a bit trickier to get one. Maybe you could try driving over to the states if you're not too far to get one.

RS66LB · #27 02-12-2013, 11:23 PM

It might be a good idea to look at the Carvin BX-1500 -it's less then $600, is stereo or mono (built in crossover in stereo mode) In stereo mode it does 300 x2 (at 8 ohms), 450 x 2 @ 4ohms and 750 x 2@2 ohms, if your looking to use it as a single 'high powered amp' it will push out 900 watts into 8 ohms while at 4 ohms it will do a very powerful 1500 watts. Aside from the price and power output being reasonable there are tons of tonal options -a tube pre , graphic eq, shelving eq, parametric eq, compression, effects out (send/return) and a decent sounding DI....btw -it weighs around 10 lbs
Of course they also have their B2000 which is a $700 'mono' amp, it too has a tube pre section however doesn't have the multiple eq sections found on the BX1500 (traditional rotary eq only) it puts out 700 watts into 8 ohms, 1300 watts into 4 and a little over 2000 into 2 ohms, it too has a decent DI , send/return etc. however I don't think it offers a compressor and weighs a little more then the BX1500 at 13 lbs.
Anyway I'm not sure if this is a fit for your needs but might be something to consider, hope it works out and have a great day.

MysticMichael · #28 02-13-2013, 08:12 PM

I'm going to go on record in disagreement with jungleheat, KC. There's nothing wrong with getting a much higher-powered head, sooner rather than later - even if you can't actually translate much of that power into actual output through your current cabs. The abundance of clean headroom is ample reason enough, and will certainly serve as the foundation for any future, higher-powered rig of choice as well.

A new amp head with 500 (@ 8 ohms) - 1,000 watts (@ 4 ohms) available is certainly not overkill in my book. The previously mentioned Carvin BX1500 is a darned good choice too.

MM

jungleheat · #29 02-13-2013, 10:27 PM

Sure, if you want to be in danger of killing your cabs at any moment and still not be loud enough.

In terms of headroom and volume, more sensitive, higher power handling speakers is what is going to get him there fastest and cheapest. Extra wattage from a more powerful head will be of great use WHEN he has the speakers to handle it.

In the meantime, if he can find a cab with even 6db more sensitivity to his 4x10, it will be like turning his 180w Ashdown into a 720w monster. Meanwhile, amp companies DO tend to charge proportionally for wattage, but most bassists don't know enough to go for more efficient speakers, so they AREN'T priced proportionally (in other words you can get much more sensitive speakers for not much more money). Hence my initial advice to upgrade his cabs first.

Downunderwonder · #30 02-13-2013, 10:43 PM

It is very unlikely you can push a lot more power into your current cabs. Ratings are all over the place these days but I'm under the impression older MAG 300w amps have the goods. You should be peaking out one 15" cab within a hair of farting out as it is. The two cabs together won't change things much for the 15.

Since you like the 15 so much you should see what you can get out of two of them. Cranked up you'll be too loud unless you're outdoors.

RS66LB · #31 02-13-2013, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jungleheat

Sure, if you want to be in danger of killing your cabs at any moment and still not be loud enough.

In terms of headroom and volume, more sensitive, higher power handling speakers is what is going to get him there fastest and cheapest. Extra wattage from a more powerful head will be of great use WHEN he has the speakers to handle it.

In the meantime, if he can find a cab with even 6db more sensitivity to his 4x10, it will be like turning his 180w Ashdown into a 720w monster. Meanwhile, amp companies DO tend to charge proportionally for wattage, but most bassists don't know enough to go for more efficient speakers, so they AREN'T priced proportionally (in other words you can get much more sensitive speakers for not much more money). Hence my initial advice to upgrade his cabs first.

I've always subscribed to the notion of using efficiency instead of throwing power at inefficiency (our triamped pa and my personal rig are all based on that theme) however he initially mentioned that he didn't want to part with his cabs, I recomended the Carvin BX1500 since it gave him many power and crossover options based on those particular speakers however the BX1500 also allows expansion of nearly any future cab upgrades or possible future configurations, since it seems he's actually contemplating the afore mentioned upgrade he'd still have $1200 for a cab (or two) after obtaining the BX1500. Anyway thanks for setting him straight on the efficiency theme and have a great day.

Downunderwonder · #32 02-13-2013, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingCrimson

Yes I have, but I use each cab at a separate rehearsal space and most of the time I gig with one cab to save space. Its only on special occasions I use the full 4 ohm setup.

Even so, I have always felt that my Mag never pushed my 410 enough. When I was recording the mag didn't seem to push enough air through my 410 cab, so I went with my 115. I mean at 8 ohms the mag is only running 180 watts. The cabs can take 300 I would love something around 500, 600 watts at 4 ohms.

Watts ratings are useless these days. My Trace is 180w RMS into 8 ohms. The 1518 is 300W. I need to tame the lows or it farts out. It's hanging with 50w tube Marshall 4x12 by the grace of the guitarist.

BassKitty101 · #33 02-13-2013, 11:05 PM

Go for the ABM 500, it's more than loud enough and CLEAN enough to do what you need and you will keep the sound you like.

It's cheap too for a pro amp at 800 bucks.

I ran into the same problem when I had the old Mag 300 and a 410 with a 115 actually.
It sounded good but just couldn't be clean and push volume. In the end I'm very glad I upgraded to the ABM series stuff, it's like playing through a whole new animal. In a good way of course.

3mrhythm · #34 02-13-2013, 11:11 PM

two years back i had eden vt300.. it was an absolute beast. i couldnt turn the sucker past the second click on the volume knob without shaking the whole house. I was using the 4x10 sealed eden cab with it (also discontinued)

that setup was amazing and crazy loud. 300w tube is some serious power

bass whaler · #35 02-14-2013, 12:03 AM

Hey King, I have the same Yorkville speakers 410s and a 15, I currently use a new 250 watt Hartke amp, It gives the Yorkville paper cone speakers brainfreeze. If you need anything with more power you better get the Hartke Kilo 1000 or HL1000 watt amp and matched speakers. the 8x10s" (aluminum cone) cabinets will knock a 747 out of the sky. My Hartke 250 watt amp and Yorkvilles will peel paint, and flip a VW beetle. When you get into the large quality stacks have your savings play money account full, It will set you back a kings ransom.,, or more. The HL-1000 Hartke is my next purchace, because it is bare bones good. You can get any tone you want without messing with EQ slides. You will never crank the 1000 watt wide open throttle, However the new frequency qualities will far outshine beyond where your old amp clips, and without irritation. You may only ever use 600-700 watts, but not often. Thats unless you are Les Claypool of Primus. The Hartke 1000 series amps are brutally powerfull loud and dependable workhorses. You may not need a sound effect add on pedal , If you like the sound of your bass guitar , the Hi-output HL 1000 Amp will blow you away , especially with active Humbuckers. The bottom line is: Cut to the bone and no rocket science to ponder over. The Hartke total package is designed to help artists play their instruments, not have to be a computer Geek to understand complex systems. There also exists problems within the industry that likely creates issues every now and then. The Rating game. Some parts are rated at a given output, but do not always measure up. So this is why its best to buy matched Factory equipment, Amps and Speakers. and listen to the Manufacturers who know what works with what and why/how. I work with sophisticated electronics and trouble shoot systems. On my play toys I need an on/ off button, volume, bass, trebble, gain, somewhere to patch in effects in/out, a compressor, and thats all. Complicated amps seem to spend much time in the repair shop. I had a Fender2x12 twin that went into a roaring creek, tumbled 15' off a loading platform, and had more beer spashed on it than you can imagine. Its still alive and untouched from 1973 We took it home from a new years Gig and dryed it out for a month near the wood heater. We need good working / lasting and dependable equipment when we want paychecks.