Losing my tone at performance volume

evilbiscuit · #1 07-21-2010, 09:53 AM

Hey guys, long-time reader, first-time poster here.

I'm running a GK Backline 600 into one of the old Peavy 1810 BW cabinets. At low volume (9 o'clock, give or take) the tone is warm, punchy, and all-around solid.

However, when I gig with my band, I generally push the master up to around 12 o'clock and drive a good chunk of the bass through the cab rather than drive it through our PA (we're pretty lacking in the subs department). When I get the amp up around 11 o'clock, the tone completely tanks. The 18 starts to flop, the sound gets muddy and distorted, and any higher than 12 o'clock gets into total fartsville. I've tried playing with the settings, backing off the EQ or trading gain for volume, boost for volume, boost for gain, etc. Nothing is getting me the tone I want at the volume I need.

Thoughts? Opinions? Heckling?

ridgeback · #2 07-21-2010, 09:55 AM

compressor or limiter maybe....or maybe your just pushing more than the amp/speakers are willing to give!

evilbiscuit · #3 07-21-2010, 10:01 AM

The GK's a 300-watt amp, and the 1810 should take 400-500 easily. I don't think I'm pushing either at those settings.

Luis Fabara · #4 07-21-2010, 10:09 AM

You dont have enough power.
Your amp is clipping before your cabs. You lose bass and distort everything.

Ric5 · #5 07-21-2010, 10:14 AM

This is a classic problem. You get a different tone at low volume and high volume.

My best solution is to have my tone generated at my pedalboard and then have a relatively clean and powerful amp. When you need more volume than your amp can produce cleanly then get pa support.

Metal Mitch · #6 07-21-2010, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis Fabara

You dont have enough power.
Your amp is clipping before your cabs. You lose bass and distort everything.

This. The 18 sucks more power than your amp can put out. A 300 watt amp is a good match for the pair of 10's (or a single 15) and that's about it.

rpsands · #7 07-21-2010, 10:33 AM

More power or more sensitive cabinets. Probably the latter would be a better bet first.

NoGraveConcern · #8 07-21-2010, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilbiscuit

When I get the amp up around 11 o'clock, the tone completely tanks. The 18 starts to flop, the sound gets muddy and distorted, and any higher than 12 o'clock gets into total fartsville.

I have to disagree with those who say you don't have enough power. It sounds like you are actually overpowering the cab. From what you have said above, the 18 is farting--ie it has run out of linear excursion. Once the 18 starts to fart you can't get any louder and your tone degrades. It doesn't take huge wattage to fart out a BW either. They were impressive drivers back in the day and were rated take a lot of power (thermally), hence the high wattage ratings, but their x-max (mechanical power handling) is not all that.

The fix: either change your tone by cutting some of the low frequency boost, or add more cabs.

Munjibunga · #9 07-21-2010, 11:10 AM

A modern 410 will solve the problem. You can get at least $250,000 for the 1810 on Antiques Road Show.

**bass4worship** · #10 07-21-2010, 11:11 AM

When playing a loud volume cut back on your bass EQ on your amp or add some more mids.

Luis Fabara · #11 07-21-2010, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoGraveConcern

It sounds like you are actually overpowering the cab. From what you have said above, the 18 is farting--ie it has run out of linear excursion.

When I had a Hartke 2000 (120w@8ohms) with an Ampeg 410HE (200watts@8 Ohms), all I got was farting at high volumes.
Replaced it with a higher powered head (STV450)... and farting was gone.
I was clipping the amp. The same applies to 300 watt heads on 600 watts cabinets

Its easier to fart a speaker with a clipping amp.. than to fart a speaker with a higher powered amp.
Example: I just tried 1450Watts on a 8x10(800 watts@4). It never farted.

In most cases its better to have a Head or Power Amp 1.5x to 2x the rating of the cabs(Solid state watts here). This way you always have clean power going to those speakers.

gregoire1 · #12 07-21-2010, 11:19 AM

I use a BFM omni10 (the undisputed clearest cab on earth), but when cranked in this one rehearsal hall (small bedroom where I'm sandwiched between drums and guitars 4x12)goes to mud! Also beware that contour knob! I bet your amp tends to scoop when cranked and if you back down on that contour (to compensate) your tone will come back.

noahw1 · #13 07-21-2010, 11:30 AM

Maybe the whole band should try and keep the same volume when practicing and playing live.

craig.p · #14 07-21-2010, 08:15 PM

> The 18 starts to flop [...]

That's the big red flag and a clue to the solution, in my opinion; you're burning power generating subsonics, which can't be heard. Get a nice steep subsonic filter into your signal chain, or, as someone's already said, go easy on the bass control. If you have an active bass, go easy on the bass control on that, too.

Bassmec · #15 07-21-2010, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noahw1

Maybe the whole band should try and keep the same volume when practicing and playing live.

Well yes and no, Logically if they use the same PA for practice as they do when they play out, if they don't all turn up their instrument amps (due to feedback limitations with microphones
the pa and monitors will stay at about the same level) there is a real danger that the audience might get to hear some of the vocals.