Lost in the EQ swamp and looking for guidance

[mikeddd]

I've read bits and pieces in many different posts about this topic but have yet to find a concise guide. This is a basic start, but not exactly what I'm looking for. http://www.recordingeq.com/EQ/req0400/OctaveEQ.htm

My Demeter HBP-1 has a 2-band (low/mid) parametric EQ in addition to the usual bass/mid/treble/presence controls. I tweak and tweak (both with and without the aid of alcohol) and can never find a setting that's perfect (to my ear) for "classic rock" or "motown" or "RHCP-sound". I get close but it's just not "totally there" for whatever I'm playing. And forget about changing genres. Judas Priest, Stevie Wonder and Flea don't mix at all, EQ-wise.

Cutting/boosting certain frequencies can "remove mud", "add clarity", "kill clackiness", "and full bottom", etc. This I know, but is there a comprehensive list of all that somewhere, that lists exactly what frequencies (i.e. 120Hz not "bass") to cut or boost? Maybe with suggested settings for certain genres?

Everyone please feel free to threadjack and ask your own questions as long as they're related to the original topic. I'd really like to hear what everyone has to say on this complicated topic.

[skychief]

Originally Posted by mikeddd

I get close but it's just not "totally there" for whatever I'm playing.

Cant really help ya mate, but if youre getting close, youre doing better than most!!

EQ is that "smoke & mirrors" aspect of playing bass. So many variables come into play ( i.e., room size, proximity to walls, orientation of speaker, etc...) its hopeful alchemy at best. The ideal situation, of course, is one that requires NO eq tweaks. But lets face it, in the real world we'll always need to make adjustments. And in my case, WITH the aid of alcohol.

[One Drop]

In the end the sound you want has to be in the instrument somewhere. I try to get my sound form the bass and strings and my fingers and just EQ for the room.

For me, EQing to get 'my sound' is a one way trip to the rubber room.

[mikeddd]

EQing to get 'my sound' is a one way trip to the rubber room.

EQ is that "smoke & mirrors" aspect of playing bass. So many variables come into play ( i.e., room size, proximity to walls, orientation of speaker, etc...) its hopeful alchemy at best.

I wholeheartedly agree with both of these statements. My problem is that I'm a knob twiddler by nature; I'm always over-analyzing the sound. I try to ignore myself but it doesn't work. Too many years in mobile audio (car stereo) with dual 31-band EQs will drive you nuts. You pull down one freq and start hearing deficiencies in the surrounding freqs, so you boost those, but then have to cut...your wrist after awhile. LOL!

[dmusic148]

I have that pre, and out took awhile for me to figure it out, but I love the sound. First, switch out the parametric and just use the basic EQ to get you close. Remember that the Presence control is a low treble control (centered at 1k iirc), and is boost-only. Turning this up very much can get you into clank-city. I never set it higher than 10:00.
Next, I have always found that the parametric is most useful with the bandwidth controls set at around 2:00. No matter what I do, that's where they always end up.
But more often than not, I have the parametric switched off. Sometimes I'll use it to boost low mids for a bit more punch, our I'll cut high mids for a cleaner slap tone. But usually it's off.
Be careful with your input gain setting- I find a hot P bass will make it get fuzzy if set past 11:00.
Hope this helps!

[skychief]

Originally Posted by mikeddd

My problem is that I'm a knob twiddler by nature; I'm always over-analyzing the sound.

NOt a problem as long you're having fun doing it!!

[mikeddd]

Thank you so much! It's very helpful to have some "preamp specific" advice from a fellow user. Ironically, it's been the presence and parametrics that have given me the most fits. I can never tell if I like or don't like the presence totally off and the parametric requires tweaking when changing genres. I've always had the Q controls on the parametric at dead-center. I will try your suggestions. Thanks again!

Originally Posted by dmusic148

I have that pre, and out took awhile for me to figure it out, but I love the sound. First, switch out the parametric and just use the basic EQ to get you close. Remember that the Presence control is a low treble control (centered at 1k iirc), and is boost-only. Turning this up very much can get you into clank-city. I never set it higher than 10:00.
Next, I have always found that the parametric is most useful with the bandwidth controls set at around 2:00. No matter what I do, that's where they always end up.
But more often than not, I have the parametric switched off. Sometimes I'll use it to boost low mids for a bit more punch, our I'll cut high mids for a cleaner slap tone. But usually it's off.
Be careful with your input gain setting- I find a hot P bass will make it get fuzzy if set past 11:00.
Hope this helps!

[mixamatchi]

I once thought that most of my tone was coming from my combination of gear. I was given the opinion by a guitarist, that 50% of ones tone is in the hands. At the time, I thought this was ludicrous, but I have since come to believe he was correct. An equalizer is just that. It's there to correct what's wrong, and allow you to "equalize" the sound. Your equalizer can take you a long way with discovering new sounds you can make, but in the end, a great deal of what you hear is really you. Try playing different, as well. I'm not trying to state the obvious, just saying that if you're most of the way there with the eq, the sound you're looking for may just be in your hands. It may be a sound you will only get with another bass; not so much because the bass is different, but because you play it different. Happy recording.

[skychief]

Also,,, heres a little trick i learned way back when i was knee-high to grasshopper:

At gigs, have a nice 30-foot instrument cord handy (not recommending using this for playing).. Walk out where the audience would be and do your sound-check there. You can employ one of your bandmates to fiddle with the EQ until it meets your expectations. (this would apply in situations where you're not playing thru FOH system).

[Remus_Redbone]

Set your amp flat and then cut 250k around 2db to 4 db and play a while. You might want to boost your lowest freq a little and maybe a touch up at 4k - 5k. From there you can usually get what you need from front or rear pickup volume adjustment and where you pluck / pick the strings. Good luck.

[mixamatchi]

A more specific reply: I personally don't like the sound of 250hz. I tend to always pull it down or out. You may find that a sound you know you don't like is KEY to the sound you are after. Set it all FLAT and see what you have to start with. Then do exactly OPPOSITE what you think will deliver the sound you are after. Maybe you will find that you are eq ing based on preconcieved notions. I know I've done it.

[Audiophage]

Originally Posted by mixamatchi

A more specific reply: I personally don't like the sound of 250hz. I tend to always pull it down or out. You may find that a sound you know you don't like is KEY to the sound you are after. Set it all FLAT and see what you have to start with. Then do exactly OPPOSITE what you think will deliver the sound you are after. Maybe you will find that you are eq ing based on preconcieved notions. I know I've done it.

250 is definitely a frequency that I've come to find a little bit goes a long way. It's a good place to start adding more girth to my tone, but it's really easy to get things muddy with it.

[R Baer]

Don't feel bad for not getting totally there... many players never do. One problem I see often is that many players never really train their ear to what the different bands of EQ sound like. It's really hard to hear your bass and think "Geez, I got a bit too much 1K in there", if you are really not able to tell what 1K sounds like.

Without hearing your gear and the music you play, it's pretty hard to make general guesses at what you may need. My best advise would be to enlist the help of a live sound engineer. You need someone with a good ear that can hear the entire of mix of your band and help you get a bass tone that will sonically work with the rest of the band. If you can't find one, but know a good studio engineer, you could pay for an hour of studio time and take your rig in there for advise. Most of these guys (if they are good) really know how to work an EQ. I gained a huge amount of EQ knowledge from spending a lot of time in studios. Sitting in on the mix downs can really open your eyes as to what it takes to make your tone work with the rest of the band.

[1n3]

my favorite post on bass amp EQ, from pbasswil

[will33]

Originally Posted by 1n3

my favorite post on bass amp EQ, from pbasswil

Excellent description. One of the most informative I've seen for the lay person to get a grasp on what all that stuff does to their sound. Great way of conveying it to people.

[GrowlerBox]

Originally Posted by will33

Excellent description. One of the most informative I've seen for the lay person to get a grasp on what all that stuff does to their sound. Great way of conveying it to people.

I remember that post -- excellent primer.

It's important to remember that "flat" and "knobs at noon" (anyone? ) are almost never the same thing -- most preamps/heads are voiced one way or another; getting a "flat" response from my RH450, for example, involves some pretty radical EQ shifts from "noon", and makes my rig sound like complete boomy, clanky sh!te. Cabs are also voiced, and need to be accounted for, bass construction and setup, and technique likewise, and that's before you even venture out of your anechoic chamber.

It's damn near impossible to give specific advice, given all this, but pbasswill's explanation goes a long way towards providing an idea of what effect various frequency bands have on your overall tone. It really seems to be a matter of taking that basic understanding, and then playing around with those bands until you get something you like. At least at that time, in that place.

[1n3]

Originally Posted by will33

Excellent description. One of the most informative I've seen for the lay person to get a grasp on what all that stuff does to their sound. Great way of conveying it to people.

Originally Posted by GrowlerBox

I remember that post -- excellent primer.

Thanks for the amens, guys. I'd like to see pbasswil's post in the FAQs, but don't know if the thread is worthy of it. Guess I'd need to take that up with a mod. Speaking of mods, here's another post on bass EQ from IvanMike... already in the FAQs.

[Son of Bovril]

Maybe the problem is the fEARful... *Duck*

[rad bassman]

Originally Posted by Son of Bovril

Maybe the problem is the fEARful... *Duck*

lol, you may well duck, lol, but in all honesty the colour of certain cabs may be to 1 bass players liking, i know i dont dislike some 4x10's out there, its not the sound i'm after but it certainly does the job for many.

what you get from a fEARful is a virtually flat response, it reproduces what you feed it faithfully, when EQing it responds very well, what i dont like about most commercial cabs is the disapearing G string, often seems to be so much quieter than the other strings, not a problem with the fEARful tho,

i set my EQ more often than not starting with all EQ at noon (no, not flat) to get as close to clean as possible, i have other voicing options on my head too, bottom, contour, growl, and attack these dramaticly change the sound so i try to again start with a tone as clean as posible, the sound of my bass. Then i look at my gain setting, having the gain to low can really suck out the tone of a bass, but obviously too high a setting can be harmful if not just nasty.

any/all EQ tweaks are slight, lil bit at a time, i do this at gigging volume too (when i can), its no good getting a great sound at a quieter level to then turn up to gig level to find that it just does not sound the same, getting out front as far as possible is also great if you can, what you hear right in front of your cab is not what goes out front.

truth is i dont think there is any 1 surefire way to EQ your bass sound, its personal, if your like me (compulsive knob twiddler, lol) then chances are you will never find that tone your looking for, and if you do you probably wont be aware you found it coz your too close to your rig to hear it as every1 else hears it

[staindbass]

Originally Posted by Son of Bovril

Maybe the problem is the fEARful... *Duck*

lol ! *ducks also* its probably not the speakers. maybe one 15 isnt enough. if you push the speakers hard , they get congested, and non linear. maybe thats where the lack of what your seeking is coming from.